1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

N4/C1 Token Design Questions

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Lawson, Oct 1, 2020.

  1. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2020
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    639
    I was under the impression that @Mob of Blondes felt it important to have squares near the center of the Silhouettes for gameplay purposes. If it's not so important I could do a stepped fade of some sort (since I'm trying to avoid soft gradients personally on my designs).

    If I was just making them for me, I'd probably just go with this design for clean aesthetics:
    Screen Shot 2020-10-14 at 2.38.44 AM.png
    They don't have the guides, but I feel like once you're trying to eyeball a 3mm square from 36" you should be playing with surveying tools and not little cardboard squares that you have to manually position anyway. Either that or come up with some 3mm magnets and stick them on both sides and then drag it around to find your spot. Call me crazy but I always assumed 3mm just sort-of a 'minimum perceivable area you kept roughly in your mind but not something you actually physically tried to measure.
     
    Jumara likes this.
  2. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2020
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    639
    BTW if 3mm is make-or-break, be sure to play the game using inches instead of cm.
    Each 4-4 (inch) move gets you exactly 3mm farther than a 10-10 (cm) move :joy:
     
    Nuada Airgetlam likes this.
  3. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    2,642
    Likes Received:
    2,660
    Oh, absolutely, I'd love to call out a madman who proposes he sees exactly 3mm of the Silhouette to take out his theodolite and prove it xD

    Always went with "eh, I guess that's at least 3mm, you're good". I'd much rather want to see your design used than checkers, tbh.
     
  4. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    316
    Commander @Lawson ,

    thank you for your initiative. It is very appreciated.
    Of course I am as pleased as all the other ones around here for your meaningful artdirection and your dedication to 100% usability.
    Thank you.

    Sincerely yours
    Cmdr. Darko
     
    Nuada Airgetlam and Lawson like this.
  5. redki

    redki New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Is there a link to download and print your work? This is freaking awesome, congrats!
     
    Lawson likes this.
  6. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2020
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    639
    I'm very close to having a link - just doing final tech checks and ensuring that the tokens will be scaled properly to accommodate both metric and imperial players - should have it all set before the end of the week. I'll also be sending the files of to @toadchild soon so that they can be incorporated into his token generator.
     
    tox, Willen and toadchild like this.
  7. redki

    redki New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thank you very much, waiting for them.
     
  8. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2020
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    639
    So here's a sneaky trick:
    SILHOUETTES_LAYOUT_v04.jpg
    This version 'cheats' with the sizes of the 3mm squares for the different silhouettes to ensure that they have a whole number across and no weird joint in the middle.

    A true 3mm square will be 71 pixels across at 600dpi

    But here's how I cheated the square size for each:
    S1, S2 (25mm wide) = 73.7 pixels per square (3.12mm squares) - 4% larger than 3mm
    S3 (40mm wide) = 72.7 pixels per square (3.08mm squares) - 3% larger than 3mm
    S4 (55mm wide) = 72.2 pixels per square (3.06mm squares) - 2% larger than 3mm
    S8 (70mm wide) = 71.9 pixels per square (3.04mm squares) - 1% larger than 3mm

    For reference, the largest variance, for the 25mm wide silhouettes, is only 3 pixels per square at 600 dpi. That represents 0.25mm which is about the minimum size that a line can be in order to be visible. The slight difference when multiplied across many squares creates a bigger variance, but since the squares aren't actually used to measure distance like a ruler, but instead just need to be roughly accurate in and of themselves, I think this works.

    If I put the S1 and S8 next to one-another and zoom in 400%, which have the biggest difference, you can see how the squares won't quite line up:
    Screen Shot 2020-10-14 at 11.28.34 AM.png
     

    Attached Files:

    #168 Lawson, Oct 14, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  9. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    3,931
    Likes Received:
    7,465
    That’s sneaky and I like it!
     
  10. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,085
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    There is another way: double sided templates. Start the squares from one edge (and the bottom), so when in use you can get perfect edge for that side, or for the other by flipping the card (back to front, or upside down, or both). And no one will be able of saying the sizes are wrong (the checkers, this time).

    Also the text could be inverted colors, or some other way to still show checker limits.
     
  11. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,576
    Likes Received:
    2,206
    God knows I like to follow the rules precisely, but honestly, if my opponent wants to distinguish between 3mm and 3.13mm, I think I'm looking for a new opponent.
     
    Nuada Airgetlam and Lawson like this.
  12. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,085
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Quick mock up of S2, obviously double width, print this way and bend, or cut each half separately and glue to each side of something thicker:
    silhouette-s2-double-sided-proposal.png
    You have perfect alignment in the top + left edges with the half marked with base in grey, and also top + right with the one without base. And if you rotate what you view (= upside down), you get bottom + right (base at top), and bottom + left (no base).
     
  13. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2020
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    639
    That's an interesting idea. I'll likely percolate on it a bit for now and focus on getting the tokens out first so people can start using those.

    Regarding printing and cutting of tokens, I know I brought this up once but I'm circling back to it... does everyone here cut their tokens using craft punches and then mount on 25mm/1" rounds of some sort and just accept the fact that a 1" punch-out is going to overlap the edge a bit? I am still searching for a punch of *just* the right size to allow me to mount on 1" bases and will likely custom-size the prints I'm using personally for myself to get consistent border width. But I want to make sure that the bleed and edge width for my default sheets services the most people.

    Check this out: IMG_3049.jpg
    The Imp-2 marker is scaled down 50% from 600 dpi to 300 dpi for my home printing test, is cut using a 1.5" punch and it fits just about perfectly on the 40mm Litko base I have for it and has a roughly 1.5mm grey border around the edge (and a little bit of the acrylic border sticking out beyond that).

    Printing the 25mm tokens out with the same settings gives about the same sized border (B&W AP mine w/ 50% marking). However, when you glue it on a 25mm or 1" round (the 'Unloaded' seen in color from an earlier one of my tests, sitting above the AP) and wrap the border down around the edges of the token, the gray ring becomes dangerously narrow in places. I think people who do this would benefit potentially from one of the tokens to the right, scaled to 49% or 48%, as, post wrap, it would have about the right edge-width.

    Thoughts?
     
  14. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    316
    I will ask a friend, if he can print your tokens on stickers. I will then stick them on some tokens (last Edition they were mirrored and sticked under acryl-tokens (like MAS did it, but I used 25mm)). The stickers aren't pre-cut, I cut the surplus with a modelling knife - this way I can hide the fact, that I am off-center. Thanks to @toadchild again. I have 200 very nice tokens.

    Another friend of mine printed his tokens on photo-paper and glued them to MDF-tokens. He sanded the surplus and then painted the side off the token black with a pen.

    TLTR and conclusion: Take a wide edge. It helps. I like it, when the outer ring (grey) matches the inner circle (with infos) in width.

    ________________________________________________

    And while we're at edges - I am not 100 % convinced, that the ordertokens you created share the theme of the other tokens. I am missing the white (or functional colored) circles. They might not have informations, but it would help me to see the pattern. Please consider to make them match.

    Well, and I am also not 100% convinced of the Holo-Pojector-Tokens. But this is just because I don't like the mirrored images on them. This is just personal taste - you might consider it, if you see the cross eyed eyes, that I see on those tokens.... :persevere:
     
    #174 Daniel Darko, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
    toadchild likes this.
  15. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2020
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    639
    I actually created several different styles of Order tokens and was going to put them out to a vote before I realized it was just going to further delay me completing this and picked one. It is a bit different than the other tokens to do borderless but it also ensures that you'll always be able to see them, so they work for me personally. But I still may make some alts of a handful of tokens - especially once these are on the token creator and I don't need to commit to adding more tokens to my sheet/layout every time I make a new one.
     
    Daniel Darko and toadchild like this.
  16. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2020
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    639
    Okay I've got them up on google drive. I'd like a 3rd party (or several) to do a final tech/qc check (including possible test print and cut just to confirm no issues, particularly with those using A4 paper) before I put them out to the world. Volunteer and I'll PM you the link.
     
    #176 Lawson, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
    Willen likes this.
  17. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2020
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    639
    Also FYI guys I just finally found the right cutter
    Because it's adjustable I was able to get some BANG ON perfect cuts for my 1" discs. Check it out:
    IMG_3053.jpg
    This is from one of my color proof test prints at 300dpi, so I haven't glued it down on the disc, but the fit is gonna be PERFECT.

    Also I can use it for 40mm and 55mm cuts as well because of the adjustment.
     
    Xeurian, Willen, Rumdog and 2 others like this.
  18. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,685
    Likes Received:
    2,749
    I'm here.
    (but i'd like also the 15mm states)
     
  19. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    336
    Boy, these tokens and markers look sleek. I'd love if someone more tech-savvy than me could upload them to Tabletop Simulator.
     
    Willen likes this.
  20. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2020
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    639
    It's easy enough to print for 15mm fortunately by scaling the print settings to 60%. I can't guarantee legibility at this size unless you have access to a 600 dpi printer but if you do, you're in luck because the tokens exist in 600 dpi. You may just need to print a couple more pages than you would want to because I've mixed tokens you likely wouldn't want to print at 15mm on the same sheets. That should be solved when @toadchild is able to get these onto the creator, though.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation