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N3 tactical guide to Qapu Khalqi, The Men of the Gate

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Errhile, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Pfft. Apparently I've looked wrong way, thanks for correction.
     
  2. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Happens even to the best of us at times, @Barrogh
     
  3. AssaultUnicorn

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    So, how would QK deal with the Avatar? Were there any players here who faced that TAG and managed to snatch a victory? What lists and tactics were you using?

    Here are some of the lists that could work in my opinion (haven't tested them yet), all revolving around a single combat group:


    Halberd Squad
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    HAFZA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    HAFZA Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    JANISSARY Akbar Doctor (MediKit) AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
    JANISSARY HMG / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 40)
    IGUANA HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 75)
    [​IMG] IGUANA OPERATOR HMG / Pistol, Knife. ()
    SEKBAN Lieutenant AP Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    HAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
    SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    NAJJARUN Engineer Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)

    5.5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Sledge Squad
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    HAWWA' (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    AZRA'IL Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
    JANISSARY Lieutenant AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    JANISSARY Akbar Doctor (MediKit) AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
    JANISSARY HMG / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 40)
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    HAFZA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    DJANBAZAN Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
    DJANBAZAN (Fireteam: Haris) Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30)
    HAFZA Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)

    6 SWC | 297 Points

    Open in Infinity Army



    Anvil Squad
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    DRUZE HMG, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (E/M and Nimbus) / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Panzerfaust / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Panzerfaust / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    HAWWA' (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    SEKBAN Lieutenant AP Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    IGUANA HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 75)
    [​IMG] IGUANA OPERATOR HMG / Pistol, Knife. ()
    KAPLAN Engineer Combi Rifle, Blitzen / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  4. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    My first call would be to Hack it with an al'Hawwa. I don't have much experience with Avatars though, there's just one Combined player in the local meta, and he rarely plays vanilla. The one time I faced his Avatar I was lucky: immobilised it in ARO Hack, then dropped a Yuan Yuan next close to it (intending to use it as a speedbump, really..), with a Booty of.. EM CCW, and in the effect persuaded the player out of bringing the thing again...

    The problem I see with Avatar is good BTS, good Armor and ODD on top of all that, in a TAG package... definitely hard to kill.
    And we don't have much in terms of flamethrowers to strip the ODD off it.

    Druze EM GL might be handy there - use Speculative Fire. Blitzens and ADHLs could be nice, but they're low Burst, and suffer from the ODD. E/Maulers get around that, but you need to sneak in close.

    Have a decent Repeater network to have it take all the Hacking hits you can muster in a given list.

    And, if there doesn't seem to be a decent option of getting the avatar itself, go after its greatest weakness.
    The Order Pool.
    I mean, this big lumbering Avatar costs 137 pts and 3,5 SWC. So, in a typical 300pts game, whatever is behind it, can't be more than 163 pts and 2,5 SWC total. Sure, with now Tactical Awareness and being a LT, Avatar will always have its 3 Orders, but if you get rid of the rest of them ,your life will be way easier.
     
  5. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    BTS 9 backed by a strong info war game and a powerful attack piece is rough, for sure. My preferred method is basically this;
    ... With the caveat being a good player won't let you get at those supporting units without some punishment or a lot of creativity. Thankfully QK has some great infiltrators and Yuan Yuan to give us the option of getting stuck in deep and that allows us to hunt down the chaff. Be ready for a lot of things to die.

    I actually also really enjoy our medium infantry in a list geared up against the avatar this season as well. I use the FD to get in solid defensive positions and try to make it as difficult as possible for them to be killed (They will be killed). If they take enough heat and buy enough time, you should have had enough luck to severely hamstring the Avatar's order pool.

    When the pool is sufficiently drained, they'll have a hard time finding optimal placement, which will allow a "death by one thousand cuts" game plan to go in to effect. Now; all of this takes a lot of time, so its really important you use your superior mobility to score objectives while you achieve all of the above. Its an attrition game and you can absolutely win it.
     
  6. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling that unless you are playing in a LI event, your main problem is that you're playing LI list with a faction that is actually relatively decent at saturating opponent's offense and also throwing some bodies at their order generation. They have ways to play LI more effectively than some other armies, but I'm not sure if there are scenarios when QK LI lists work better in a non-restricted match.

    There definitely will be some soft models in an Avatar list and you have some good AD choices (consisting of almost auto-take YYs and e/mauler Bashi, specifically interesting in this scenario) and workable, if pretty basic, infiltrators. I would advise not to throw away all of your YYs there though because against vanilla armies (and Avatar only appear in vanilla CA) smoke + linked Djan is probably your best shooting setup. You can probably get some mileage out of NCO Ghulam though.
    Just keep in mind that your opponent will try hard to hide his stuff from it (or at least will learn to do so after a single match, although from my experience not facetanking enemy Active Turn is the first thing Infinity players learn). Be ready to play your mission then. Good news is that hamstringing opponent's already relatively small order pool works well enough in terms of winning objectives.

    On the other hand, I would advise against relying on Azrails or Iguana. They are just so unexciting at the only thing they can do, especially when we're talking about something that costs 74 points.

    Case in point, you'd think that AP HMG should be good against ARM 9 unit, but when it comes to OOD-equipped Avatar, even non-linked Djanbazan with no smoke support will still inflict wounds slightly better and slightly safer.

    Other than that, I don't think anything else I can say will be more interesting than what others can, or have said already.
     
    AssaultUnicorn, Errhile and oldGregg like this.
  7. Aemaru

    Aemaru Well-Known Member
    Warcor Aristeia

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    in reactive turn
    Al'Hawwa hacker

    in active turn
    E/Mauler with a bashi
    Depleting order pool
    Bring someone in CCto glue it
    Use smoke+ Djanbazan HMG in 5 men fireteam with an other to back up if the first dies. In active turn in a frontal firefight the odds are the best with this solution I think.. but you're going to waist a lot of orders on his armor ^^(to hit in good range : 5 dices at 15 versus 1 on 9... 4+ to save in cover)
    Or A 5 men ft of Kaplan with many blitzen ^^ or FT with E/M grenade launcher (but EM dam 13 on BTS/2 = 9+ to save)
     
    #107 Aemaru, Oct 10, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  8. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Or hit it with a flamethrower if have one at hand, burn the ODD off, and then whack it with anything else. I had decent results against TAGs with AP Rifles, for example.

    Al Hawwa is the best Hacking answer, but if what you have when the push comes to shove is a Druze Assault Hacker, use the Druze. If it is any of our regular Hackers, they too have programs that can at least freeze the TAG for a while. Chances of success aren't great, but what does it cost you to try...?

    Bottom line: look at what you do have on table. Figure a way to use whatever you have to harm the target.
    Remember, if it is stupid but works, then it ain't stupid.

    Infinity's beauty is not in having always a perfect counter for any given problem right where oyu need it. Because that only rarely happens.
    It is in making do with what you have, and where you have it.
     
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  9. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Flamethrowers are actually nice against ODD things, but QK are pretty limited here: only Brigada and Iguana have those, and while Sekbans and Hafzas have Fire ammo (HRLs), they will have to hit first just like everyone else.
     
  10. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Exactly.
    Which is going to be a problem.

    What I'm saying is not bring a flamethrower so you could burn the Avatar.
    Merely that if you happen have a flamethrower reasonably close to an Avatar, burning it is a good idea.

    Remeber what Duncan Idaho said: Killing with the point lacks artistry, but don't let that hold your hand when the opening presents itself.
     
  11. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys, actually I have only a game with my qk army(and hadn't time to update my post) but I'd like your opinion about playing 3 AL hawwa instead and Haris with odalisque spit, hafza hrl and sekban haris
    Is wise play 3 camo instead this Haris?
    Thanks
     
  12. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    @Doa it all depends. As usual.

    Al Hawwa in my games often consume a lot of Orders. Therefore, they do well paired with a long-ranged Order suppliers. And, well, I tend to struggle ot effectively use 2 of them these days. Full trio would be even more challenging.

    A Haris Sekban + Odalisque Spitfire + Hafza HRL... dunno. Never seen that in action. to me, it sounds like a classical neither fish nor fowl. Where the Hafza had Infiltration and were Specialists (save for the sniper), this bunch brings nothig of these. They have some serious firepower, true, but the Sekban is going to drag their feet in terms of mobility.
    What use do you intend for such a Haris Team...?
     
  13. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    @Errhile in my mind they will be a backup attack piece other than my djam core with leila and hafza hrl. Hafza and odalisque can refill my core if someone go down
    To accomplish mission i have leila, djam doctor, hafza FO(allt hese pieces are in core ft), ghulam doctor and al hawwa fo
     
  14. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    I see. As a backup attack piece I'd rather build it on Odalisque Haris (73/3). Assuming it is a secondary, it is likely you'll have to move it up front with your Order Pool somewhat reduced already. Sekban is, IMO, likely to be gragging the team's feet, even if he's making the team cheaper (70/2,5).

    Still, that's a lot of SWC for a secondary attack fireteam.

    Against al'Hawwa... dunno. For me, al'Hawwa does something this Haris can't: troubleshoot. Sneak up on something blocking your preferred avenue of approach and blast it at close range (things like a TR HMG or a sniper). In case of the Hacker, immobilise it (if it is hackable). Things that allow your main attack pieces to close in safely ot their preferred engagement distance. Al'Hawwa can do objectives, too.

    The Haris you've described can't do any of these things.

    From my point of view, based on my experience - I wouldn't field such a Haris.

    But that's me.

    My advice?
    Give it a test run or three. See how it does. How it does work for you.
    I wouldn't hold high hopes, but again: that's me. YMMV :)
    And actual field experience trumps theorycrafting every time!
     
  15. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    May i ask you usually what do you put in your 2nd group?
     
  16. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    The problem is there is no "usual" layout for my list.

    My last game (a Highly Classified mission for the Asteroid Blues, played against the Onyx) had a Kaplan Haris (Spitfire, Engineer & Wild Bill) plus a Rafiq & 2x Fanous REM. They did fabulously, but I had quite some luck.
    Main group was buildt around a Sekban Core.
     
  17. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    I hope to try soon kaplan haris and i am curious to try also wild bill
     
  18. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    My experience with Wild Bill is very limited, but as far as I can see:

    - he does shine in ARO and close-range active engagements. 4 shots of AP+Shock or (in ARO) 2 of DA+Shock (asuming Haris bonus), while ignoring cover, are a thing.
    - for longer-ranged Active Turn combat, he seems to be better-served by leaving it to his team-mates. So the rifle option is, IMO, not worth the extra 2pts.
    - he's pretty squishy, with ARM 1 and no Shock immunity. So be it.

    All in all, I like him better in a Kaplan Haris than in a Janissary Core.
    And solo, I don't think he's worth it.
     
  19. Capo.Paint

    Capo.Paint Member

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    In the most cases, two Hawwas are redundant, so a third one would be too much here. From my experience. I love Haris-attack-teams, so I would go for it here. Something around the Djanbazan SMR works good for me. I tried it with two Hafza FOs (one too much here, I guess) and wrecked an Avatar on the mind-base with it: MSV2 should be bypassed by White noise, but then the Hafzas started flashpulsing while the Djanbazan got shot). Novadays I try a Haris of Djanbazan SMR, Djanbazan HMG and Hafza Spitfire. Quite costly, but they can split up in the midfield and deliver a heavy weapon wherever needed.
     
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  20. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    I quite like any of the shotgun Djanbazan, if you're able to get smoke on a corner.


    And now you'll have a Deep Purple earworm...