I liked the Govads core, but yeah, now that core is really freaking good, used 3 times til now, rolled over my (good) opponents all 3 times, the Asawira inside a full link is a monster. Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) GOVAD Rifle + Light Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) GOVAD Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) ASAWIRA Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 43) 2.5 SWC | 136 Points Open in Infinity Army Used this one, usually letting the sniper behind for AROs at turn 2 or 3, parking Avicenna or Leila near an objetive and unleashing the remaining for murder duty
Generally, a Core with Asawira is pretty damn good (I used a Muyib-based one recently). Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 ASAWIRA Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 39) ASAWIRA Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 43) MUYIB Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23) MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) 4 SWC | 147 Points Open in Infinity Army I guess if I were to go cheap on that one, I'd take something like that: Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 ASAWIRA Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 43) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) GOVAD (Number 2) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) GOVAD Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) 2 SWC | 132 Points Open in Infinity Army I believe No.2 to be very useful for a Fireteam, and a shotgun for close-in work is always handy. Can't comment on the Lasiq Haris, as the Sniper went down to enemy Red Fury crit, and the remaining Riflemen didn't had a chance to achieve anything.
Govads are actually generally pretty excellent IMO. But the linked ML provides a hard hitting ARO that really dominates a table and is very hard to outshoot without significant risk. Given that these days I heavily focus on offensive Haris and Duos with defensive Cores, it's difficult to always justify the cost of the Govad core when I probably won't spend that many orders on it. But whenever I take it, it always does me proud. And if I lose the ML then I can still run the rest of the team as a smaller offensive group with the HMG.
Oh, they were always decent as a defensive Core, it is just that they are a mite pricey. But they can have a Doc now, with Avicenna.
Which is why I decided against saving another few points by substituting Avicenna with another Govad.
I'ts surprise me how people think govads are ok :D I don't managed to play well with them. Most of the times I missed the Muyibs. Still this weekend I go to a big tournament in other City and one of the lists is "govad-based". I hope they work well. Yes, the link is cheaper, but you have one less asawira... So, it is really more expensive fireteam :P Or less hard at least.
Why wouldn't they be OK? Especially post-Daedalus' Fall? They simply had the problem of being outcompeted by Muyibs. On their own, they aren't bad as such. Just the tricks they pay for (MSV L1 and Veteran L1) come into play less ofetn than Muyib's tricks. That being said, I recall a couple of games (played under 20x20 system) with the whole table being a Limited Visibility Zone. Having MSV L1 Core really gave me an edge! Well, last time I checked, Asawira Doc was 39pts (BSG) to 45 pts (AP Rifle). Avicenna was 27pts. So substituting Asawira Doc with Avicenna leaves 12 to 18 pts in your pocket. Can't see how the heck it is to be more expensive. Less hard? Certainly, ARM 3 BTS 9 W2 & Regeneration Asawira beats Avicenna in damage resistance, but ARM 2 BTS 3 W1 NWI isn't bad either. Asawira, likely the Spitfire loadout, is going to be the team's primary gunfighter anyway. Having another Asawira in the team (namely, the Doc, as a durable Specialist) certainly makes sense. But keeping those 12 to 18pts to spend them elsewhere makes just as much sense. It all depends on what kind of a list you're building, and what kind of game you do expect. In my opinion both single and double Asawira + Govad Core Fireteams are viable.
To that specific question? I certainly dare say so, o shayh. Either of these is good enough to make it work, and would be better in different circumstances. It is like asking which is better - a wagon or a boat... and then the counter-question arises: are we to travel on land, effendi, or on the sea? ;)
Yes, of course, both are a really viable core. Precisely last weekend I was in a Tournament with a fireteam with 3 Govads (HMG, Snipper and Lt) + Asawira Spitfire + Avicena (I love both: the profile and the miniature). But in game I really miss the durability of the muyibs. Maybe the rival and the table don't suit really well the list and I made my list choice wrong, I don't now. I tried hard play with Govads but I don't manage to have success with them :) I continue trying ;) I' dont give up (yet). The mission was Hunting Party against EC, so I choosed the list with Govads Core waiting for an Avatar and hoping that the core bonus + MVL1 made the difference, but not, I wasb't able to do almost nothing against the tag, because the speculokiller put ends to my govad snipper and my asawira spitfire. I really didn't explain myself well when I said it wasn't cheaper. Of ocurse the fireteam you presented is cheaper, no doubt about that, what I wanted say was that hardly can compare this two fire team, govads aren't so cheap, and perhaps you could go with a less drastic change. The choice of a cheaper core was go from Muyib core into a Govads core, instead into another cheaper Muyib core. The change is so dramatic that hardly can be compared. Why go to a Govads-core, to include Avicena? You lost a lot. Why not place instead Asawira doctor the Muyib doctor? Yes, isn't Avicena, but is the same core as you presented in first place, and the point spare is the equal. :) That is what I really tried to express. Whatever, back to the main subject... Now we have a really don't "can be ignored" force in the inclusion of Asawiras in Cores, Govads or Muyibs. Ignoring my self bad experiences with Govads, I'am really agree with @Errhile , both choices are playable. It will time for Govads and for Muyibs. Depends of many factors.
EDIT: my bad. Thought I was in the QK thread ... in HB mutts are a great option. Another route is to out-camo your opponent and make them reveal first. I do t see smoke as much of an issue in HB but if you’re getting pinned down I always finding really solid cover at the end of your active turn.
As for Camo the visual modifier, it never hurts to have a Hassassin Govad around if you have to do with it. Apart form that: Direct Template weapons, Mines, Rafiq REM with Sensor, basic Haqq superior Willpower. And bucketloads of dice when shooting at it. If you can put them in Targeted state without using a lot of Orders and risking your other models, it wouldn't hurt either. Indirect fire (Speculative or Guided) is also a valid option, if you have it (and, well, basically the target should be Targetted). As for smoke, first, remember that save for models with MSV L2+, the smoke works both ways. You can't see them, but they can't see you. Again, Direct Template / Mines in Intuitive Fire mode, indirect fire at Targetted models. Also: if the target is not adept in close combat and you have a CC-competent model around (like , especially, Fiday), well, neither Smoke nor visual modifiers from the Camo skill do anything to impede Close Combat (again, if it was a Camo Marker, you need to Discover it first!). You know, we're talking Haqqislam here. Good traditional methods that work, that have always worked. So what if they are a little primitive to some? Very few people (or aliens...) have complained about it after getting stabbed in their kidney with a khanjar, khanjali, bebut or jambiya, despite these blade types being hundreds of years old :)
Worth noting that brute forcing visual mods with links is generally a better idea than Govads unless you run a core of them, pretty much. And even then Asawira you'll probably have in that core can perform almost as well, although they are more constrained by range. Also, when trying to Target opponents, you'll probably need to move extensively, then often roll at worse odds than you'll be rolling with your guns. And then you will still have to shoot. Your opponent will be happy. That's more of a general Infinity issue though, as a rule of thumb indirect fire is a noob trap. Same goes to speculative, but it can be okay now that link with LGL is more interesting, but I'd only recommend it in situations when speculative is universally good in the first place (you want to advance regardless, there are many targers to clip with a template etc). Which means you won't probably use it as a specific anti-mod tool...
Why almost no one takes Govad with HMG. It is great aro killer or Camo discover. After way is clear, you can go with asawira. Otherwise you can be stucked in your deploy. Muyibs don’t have such LOadout. Yes, there is cheap hrl, 5b with msv1 is not equal 3b without :) Btw, Now Link became even more expensive, cause asawira and avacenna was added instead of 2 Govads. Regarding durability Govads and Muyibs. Taking into consideration Muyibs dogged ability they seems thougher, but when you get first casualty in link you need to choose to get in dogged or call the doctor. It is not clear at first glance :)
