My one wish for Morat redesign..

I absolutely agree, stop with the muscle girl fetish and give us a lithe Nomad Catboy already!

 

I'm gonna agree with you in spirit but I'm also going to caution against the actual words you're using here. Saying things like 'female characters aren't allowed to be feminine' is moving the goalposts a bit. We can meet in the middle, it's totally possible to make a female char that is attractive AND a badass without having to resort to cheesecake.

Funnily enough, my ex-girlfriend actually loved my oznat models because, as she would say "they look like the dudes". She would compare them to the daturazi and go "ok, these guys are buff and half naked. The girls are also buff and half naked, I like it."

All in all, I do think MAF females are on the good side of sculpts. And they're getting better. I can't wait for a general release of the Tyrok.

 

I think the "...and sexy" part is a really important part of that comment I was trying to make. It's the specific combination of "feminine and sexy" that OP is arguing against.

Corvus Belli has global reach, and many of the cultures in the areas that they sell to have different ideas about what kind of sexuality is acceptable; even within the US, where I live, there are vastly different ideas about this based on region and culture. OP's ideas are one of those; they aren't universal, and the entire female customer base isn't on his side.

When you have different segments of the customer base with mutually exclusive ideas about what is acceptable, a choice has to be made about who you're going to cater to. You can't make everyone happy.

That's definitely one way to look at it - probably fairly close to my outlook. Others in this thread, however, have a different tack, involving ideas like the "male gaze" that put forth the idea that similar depictions of male and female characters are in a different cultural context and therefore have different implications.

 

Hey there long time no see, you cannot say that though, you deny him his dire foe that way.

 

Male Gaze is way, way more complex than that though.

Looking at Oznats and Daturazi, for example:

Daturazi are depicted in agressive, attacking poses. Whereas Oznats are depicted in more passive, posing or pointing poses. In fact, Infinity has little 'aggressive' posed females. Even stone cold badasses like Valkyrie and Kendrat are in more defensive posing.

That, by itself, is not a problem. It's a statement and a difference though. And having a female morat in an aggressive pose would be downright awesome.

Not sure if many people here have seen the old Prodos AVP range (and Prodos has a much, much bigger problem with the 'male gaze' in their line), but they actually had two female predators: one was in a generic standing pose, the other was in a jumping pose with her spear about to stab it in someone. Both were scantily clad, but the one about to skewer a bloke with her lance was getting a lot less side eye.

 

Sorry for the double post, but I'm going to go on a small side rant here that I know it's quite unpopular.

I would like to first preface this by saying that:
A) I don't think the current line of infinity is problematic in any sense;
b) I also don't think any of what I am about to say is a necessity, just a good idea;

But here's the catch: I'll wager most if not all of CB's miniature designers are heterosexual men. This means they will have very specific views of what is sexy and what is badass. If took, let's say, a heterosexual female and asked her to design a morat female, she'd design something different. A homossexual male would in turn design something different and so on and so on.

When we talk about 'badass' models, the sensibilities of the designer are less obvious because the objective of the miniature isn't to look hot, is to look like they could realistically fight in an animesque futuristic setting. But when we ask them to design something sexy, that's where things get a bit more complex.

Achilles is supposed to be an attractive guy, but the only reason he's attractive at all is because he was modeled after a real world person who IS actually attractive. The version who wasn't modeled based on a real person is remarkably generic (On a side note, Blondie really could use a redesign).

I say all of this because I wouldn't, for real, want to see CB even try to make a sexy nomad catboy. Like, the chances of it looking parodic and silly are big, and the chances of it looking offensive (even if most likely it wouldnt be intentional) are not zero. Because I'm pretty sure there's no one on the CB design staff that thinks men are hot in any sexual way.

Again, I'm not raising a picket and saying "Hire a gay artist nao!", but I am saying "Don't try to do 'sexy', stick to doing 'badass' and everything will be pretty awesome".

 

I'd definitely make the argument that this pose here isn't "passive" considering the context; she's presumably directing her Hungries forward, or telling some human "you're next." It's not passive to be giving orders or threatening people.

There is a decent amount of overlap for men specifically between what is "badass" and what is "sexy." Romance novel covers etc. Moreover, what groups find sexy or appropriate is not going to be defined by their gender and orientation; some gay guys are going to be looking for something out of Tom of Finland's folio, others would want something more understated.

In general, I'm a fan of attractive people in action poses for Infinity; but my preferences are not the only way to do things, and there are multiple aesthetics within Infinity (Ariadna vs. PanO vs. Combined Army, for example).

Nah, for some guys I know that that "badass" female character is exactly what they think is sexy. The "glorious red abs" meme is definitely a thing for certain segments of the Morat fanbase.

I would dispute this. Barring a few exceptions (Fat YY etc), almost all of the male characters in Infinity have attractive physiques; we're talking "Chris Hemsworth on Hollywood gear when prepping for a movie" broad shoulders and body fat percentages.

I legit don't think that most of the people asking for it are the type that would find a catboy attractive; it's more of a self-insert kind of portrayal they're wishing for.

 

Sigh.

Mate, your arguments are kinda reinforcing my point. We're both saying there's no 'standard' way to make sexy stuff. What I am saying is that CB's way of making 'sexy' is standardized because the voices within the company all share the same sensibilities. Which again, is /not/ a problem.

Sensibility and interpretation is subtle, but if you go and compare stuff created by people with different backgrounds you will notice that they produce different art (And miniatures are, in a sense, art, even if it's art made to be consumed within context). Just compare Full Metal Alchemist's character design and Dragon Ball and you can get a clear example. Hell, Jojo's evolution over time is also a good example of how an artist's sensibilities and tastes changing over time affect their art directly.

That's very much passive though. She isn't the one attacking, she's directing it and making a threat. Is it a bad pose? Fuck no. Is it oversexed? Also no. Does she look cool as hell doing it? Yes, yes she does. Still very much passive, she isn't about to whack someone with that sword or blow their brains off with her big gun, she's just doing a pose. CB does this a lot with minis, not just female ones, males often get to look like they're posing for a shot.

An aggressive pose is something like the KoJ where she's about to decapitate someone with her sword. Hell, even the Naga sniper, as bland as she is, is more agressive as at least she looks like she is about to shoot someone. In fact, comparing the Oznat with the Naga sniper is a good one. Sure, the Naga is in a more aggressive pose, but the Oznat pose has way more personality to it. In this case, passive doesn't mean bad.

And that's exactly why I would hate to see a nomad catboy. High chances of it just turning out ridiculous.

 

The Bakunin catboy moderator specops and his dire foe the Amazonian Acontecimento regular specops are an old and long running artistic meme of Infinity, I am sure the comment was made in jest.

 

I also would like a Nomad Catboy as they are all the rage these days.

One of the things I like about Infinity is that they have a range of female models. From by-the-book to super-anime. I love the variety of poses and feels. Shona (limited edition) and Aida (Defiance) are great examples of aggressive female models. The TAK spec -ops is great example of passive. All are awesome and well done.

Recent, they have been getting even better with poses and body types and I hope they continue to provide a range for all their customers.

 

I would say it's still a passive pose. She's standing there calmly and pointing her sword. She isn't running with the hungries, swinging her sword, firing her gun, she's hanging back and pointing. The other female morats have mostly passive poses; Other Oznat idle posing on rock, Anyat doing the catwalk strut with arms down, Sniper Zerat at ease with her gun, and Kendrat in a hunch (almost crouch) like she's sneaking.

An active pose would be like the new Yuan Yuan, mid sword strike, leg pose implying movement, hair blowing to the side following momentum. The Hacker Zerat is similar, she's running and hacking at the same time, and we can see the hair trailing as she runs.

This isn't to say that passive or active poses are inherently good or bad, it depends on the model. Saladin has a passive pose and it works because he's a brainy strategist who hangs back. Oznats run almost as fast as a motorcycle so it would be neat to see them have a little more energy to their model.

 

@DaRedOne My point is that the different ideas of "sexy" don't necessarily have anything to do with identity. You can have multiple straight guys who have different ideas about what that is in both male and female depictions. CB has chosen a style - it's not exactly what I would have wanted, but it's one style. OP wants a different style, and doesn't want CB's style.

We have very different ideas about what "passive" means; you're implying that a commanding pose is inherently disempowering, which seems counterintuitive.

 

It is quite clear the entire point is subjective and dependent on so many variables individual to each person that even finding common grounds for what is what can be difficult.

And that is fine really.

 

I guess I misinterpreted what the passive/active argument was. I though it was about implied motion in design, how the models need to show more movement. That Oznats should look more aggressive/animated like the Daturazi. My bad.

I'm of the stance that if there is going to be cheesecake, and I don't think cheesecake is going away, everyone should be able to have a slice. Whatever your identity is there should be something for you. If there are going to be models like the Techbees fighting in their underwear or the Nazarova wet T-shirt contest, I don't see why there shouldn't be sexy cat boys in Nomads or male odalisques like in the RPG book.

 

I can't speak for other people, but I find the catboy proponents to be a whole different level of stupid. I'm fine with plenty of beefcake in the miniature line.

 

Personally, my read on the Oznat pose was that it was for a tracker directing their animals after a scent. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to a sculpt posed like the Hungries themselves though.

Infinity's a weird enough setting that you can kind of get away with anything, I know I justify my Fusilier ladies being built like supermodels while still being able to make a standing jump that would shame an Olympic athlete with Haqqislamic genetic treatments and steroids. The women I know don't tend to actually *want* to be buff-looking, while the men I know very much do, so in a setting with the technology to allow a person to effectively choose their own appearance without sacrificing fitness or vices I could actually see those types of builds being quite popular.

 

Here are the Morat military ranks that someone posted on reddit.

 

I wasn't the one who brought up nomad catboys.

However, my point is that as at the moment CB doesn't have anyone who is attracted to men in their staff (a far as we know), them attempting to make an attractive male would risk stumbling a bit.

It's not impossible, but I don't trust CB to do it right at this moment.

A lot of their design and appearance choices are still rooted in a mostly "male gaze" centered style. It's gotten to a point where it mostly doesn't detract from the models, but it does color some choices that could be improved otherwise. EG: passive poses in a large number of female models.

I'm going to say again: I don't think CB are wrong in what they're doing right now. They have been wrong in the past, but the current model line is improving constantly and is on a good direction. My comments are just things I think could be improved further.