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My last hope for MO

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by andre61, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Fair enough, but there are also other factors at play here (Example: FK ML vs. Sierra REM):

    - BS 17 vs. BS 11
    - EXP + Circular Impact vs. Shock (with Assisted fire) or blank ammo
    - B 2 vs. B 4
    - ARM 5, BTS 9, W 2, Religious vs. ARM 0, BTS 3, STR 1, Remote Presence

    So there are many things to consider when chosing an ARO piece. A FK ML will have your opponent think twice considering the much bigger damage potential it offers, if it manages to land a hit (which even against a linked Kamau Sniper is around 25 %, with a slightly above 50 % chance of nothing happening, thus wasting an order for the attacker). It will also have the option to get into cover (granted, with some difficulty due to Religious) and will just tank a lot more in general with W 2 and effectively ARM 8 in cover.

    The Sierra might win some shootouts against average and low-end shooting pieces, Skirmishers and approaching Warbands, but will probably not be considered a threat to fire teams and similar offensive units, so I'd consider it to have a different purpose than the FK, while both are valid ARO pieces in general.

    There is, of course, a certain risk attached to putting a link team member out there as an ARO, but it also grants certain advantages that are otherwise unattainable on dedicated single ARO pieces.
     
    andre61 likes this.
  2. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    I mean, thats also ignoring the whole "worst case roll" comparison where a FK can afford to lose the roll, even lose badly and die, but a Vet kazak even linked probably doesnt want to take the risk that he dies one in 3 times he picks that fight and the whole rest of the active/reactive interaction.
     
  3. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    In the list I played this past Saturday I only had a OS with HRL, and I think I should have placed him on a roof top and use him as an over watch unit. So! I was thinking I would use the FK and OS as over watch units. I need to get a Sirra bot.
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Not every attack piece is as criminally undercosted and streamlined as a Vet Kazak with an AP HMG. If you try the numbers against other attack pieces like a core linked Zuyong or a Su Jian you get much better odds like 44-29% vs the Zuyong.

    And let me tell you if I need to roll on those odds twice to put the FK down I am not feeling super comfortable, the Missile launcher is scary. Then consider statistically the average is I need to roll 4 times to get him to stay down, there is a good chance somewhere in that sequence the Zuyong eats shit from a missile which is at 21% chance per roll to lose 2 wounds in a single F2F contest. Even if I win this unscathed statistically I have to burn 4 orders on turn 1, which is alot of orders to get past 1 ARO piece.
     
    #24 Triumph, Aug 15, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
    daboarder likes this.
  5. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    So! guess it is time to put the Joan link team to bed? I'm thinking CB has done something wrong here with the Joan team, what could be fix this?
     
  6. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    FATHER-KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 49)
    ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Lieutenant MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    JOAN OF ARC Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2 | 53)

    6 SWC | 294 Points

    Open in Infinity Army



    Try out a list like this – you have decent link flexibility with your Core toting a really good Missile Launcher for ARO and the ability to reform with the black friar at the head for active turn. You have your HMG to clear out ARO threats and Joan who is a really great solo strike piece. I'm sure you can find room to spend that extra 6 points too.

    Joan Crusade team is a nice idea – but pretty terrible in practice for 300 point games. It just doesn't include a lot of tools you generally end up needing. Let me know what kind of lists you've been writing and are thinking of writing!
     
    vicen85 likes this.
  7. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    I like the list for missions like Biotechvore, At this time I'm not sure which way to go with Joan and her link team, I have a lot of good advice here.
     
  8. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Don't use the crusader link. ITS A TRAP! Its very costly for not much benefit over just taking a Magister Knight link if you want an HI link. There so many more reliable ways to play MO then the cripplingly expensive crusader link.

    Yes, CB really screwed up with the crusader link.
     
  9. Sungwon

    Sungwon Member

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    I think the Crusade link has its own strength but it is not a list for any mission. I had a pretty good results in Armory and Engineering deck with the Crusade link, but I would never use it in a mission like Highly Classified. Killing oriented mission is also difficult for the Crusade Link because your ARO becomes weaker and each loss after techbee or warcor is a severe damage. So prepare several lists with different advantages (like the crusade link list and 13+ ordee list) and choose after your mission is decided might help your MO play experience.
     
  10. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any examples of 13+ Crusade list and Has any body played the 300 box set of MO and if did, how did it work out?
     
  11. Sungwon

    Sungwon Member

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    I meant prepare a list with the Crusade link team and 10 orders, and a list with 13+ orders like OS link team.
     
    andre61 likes this.
  12. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    that 300 box set of MO is meh. Again, good for a missions like armory where you want to smash into one location but its not an all comers list. At least the hospitilers make a good haris.
     
  13. vicen85

    vicen85 Well-Known Member

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    I do not understand this link. The link must be composed of Joan and 4 Hospitals; There are only 3.
     
  14. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Joan isn't linking in this list, she's there as a durable flanker/assault trooper. You can use her on the opposite flank to the Hospitaller Haris so your opponent has two big threats to defend against, with the OS/FK Fireteam protecting their backs and securing approaches.

    I'd be very tempted by Mobility Armour Joan in this list with her 6-2 Move and EXP CCW, but that might just be me wanting to get my limited edition Mobility Joan on the table :P
     
  15. vicen85

    vicen85 Well-Known Member

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    It is not a bad idea, the problem is that normally in Turn 2+ Joan loses coverage and his BS15 looks like BS12.

    I never liked Joan because the Frenzy.
     
  16. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

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    That's not a crusade link, that list is a Order Sergeant link with a Father Knight ML, a Hospitaler Haris and Joan out on her own. If she survives to turn 2, she's likely to have an additional impetuous order at that point as well, maker her more efficient at killing, if worse in a shoot-out.
     
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.
  17. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

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    She's got 6-2 move to negate enemy cover and an extra order to use, plus she's tough as anything to actually put down. Chances are she kills ~5 things and your opponent spends half of his remaining orders trying to kill her.
     
  18. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

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    Well, you don't need to add much to it (especially if you already have another PanO force) in order to field:

    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Lieutenant MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 31)
    ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
    SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Which feels like the Crusader link, but less intensive.

    I think you can build good Joan based forces for MO today, they just don't involve her in the core Fireteam.
     
    Judge Dredd likes this.
  19. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Exactly this, once Joan stops caring about cover you start charging her forwards to deny enemy cover, she's also not the Lt in this list so even if she dies turn two, as long as she's done a lot of damage then mission accomplished!
     
  20. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Mobility Joan is an absolute tank. Since the MO update I've really been loving her compared to where I almost never touched her before. You throw her out there committed to a flank and just wreak as much havoc as possible. Just save an extra order and hide her before your turn ends. Your opponent is pretty much forced to reposition to fight her or she just runs wild again.

    Bear in mind she only loses cover bonuses on Turn 2 of your turn, so even after she kills something she can still hide for your opponents first active turn. If you're careful about positioning your opponent is almost obligated to run heavier duty troops at her to effectively fight her – depending on where they deployed that may be a really big issue, especially if they have to cross the LoF of a linked FK missile launcher
     
    AdmiralJCJF, andre61, Death and 2 others like this.