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Mushashis generic switch dispute

Discussion in 'Core Set' started by Spitfire, Apr 26, 2019.

  1. Spitfire

    Spitfire Member

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    Greetings, in a recent-ish tournament i had a dispute with my opponent which we couldn't quite dissolve, but had little enough impact so that my opponent didn't stand firm on the topic but wanted to have confirmation of the great interwebz afterwards.

    I'll try to be as neutral as i can, thought i am biased towards my interpretation of course.

    So here goes:
    Situation was as follows: Shona in Range 2 attacks Mushashi who is adjacent to an enemy Laxmee.
    Shona obliterates Mushashi in that attack and there is nothing he can do to prevent it or kill shona as well.
    So my opponent declares his switch "I use my shields to inflict 2 Damage to Laxmee".

    My argument was this is impossible since Mushashis general trigger reads ":1:: Add :2: to your Roll against and adjacent Target." and since there was no roll made against Laxmee only against Shona who was too far away, he simply couldn't use the switch.

    He seemed to be under the impression he could put those into a virtual "roll" against the adjacent target which would have to simply suffer the :2: with no roll.

    Which one is right what does the Interwebz think?
     
  2. krotos

    krotos Well-Known Member
    Warcor Aristeia

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    You were right of course. This is ridiculous
     
  3. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    You were right. This is because :2: are just successes, and don’t automatically inflict :4:. They only inflict :4: during a Combat Roll and a Combat Roll wasn’t being made against Laxmee.
     
  4. -V-

    -V- A! Team member
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    ":1:: Add :2: to your Roll against and adjacent Target." and the only Target for Miyamoto is Shona:

    :wink:
     
  5. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. But I simple didn't understand how it works:

    So ... musashi attacks and has 3 successes and 3 shields ...
    So 3 successes could become damage to the target and
    The shield become damage to another adjacent miniature or only become successes if the adjacent were attacked ?
     
  6. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    To answer this, remember that Switches happen before resolution.

    And that Switches are resolved first by the Attacker.

    So, if your opponent can Displace their Aristo then they can make it impossible for you to use this Switch, as their Displace happens and they are no longer adjacent. This has NO effect on your ability to use other Switches, or the resolution of the attack, but you test the "adjacent" requirement at the moment you go to spend the symbols on the Switch.

    Does that make sense?
     
  7. Damiel

    Damiel Domaru sexytorizado :3
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    :3
     
  8. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    :1::1:

    Thanks.

    actually I always think the defense switch happens first lol. Thanks for clarifying.

    Even so, if the switch happens... the damage is given Immediately or is just success and just become damage if musashi attacks the adjacent target with a new attack.

    I don't know if I make myself clear, sorry for my rusted English.



    If I understand correctly each :1: that musashi has can become a :2: in the same target he attacked right ?
     
    #8 siri, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  9. Damiel

    Damiel Domaru sexytorizado :3
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    Also, the same target he is defending from, or same target he is disengaging (whether trying to escape or preventing it).

    :3
     
    siri likes this.
  10. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Minor correction - the active player chooses who does Switches first.
     
    Ealthril, AdmiralJCJF and siri like this.
  11. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Yes, very valid point.

    In this case (Mushashi defending, attacker who can Switch to Displace) the Attacker will WANT to Switch first.

    But in many other cases forcing the Defender to Switch first will allow the Attacker to make their Switch choices informed by the final state of the opponents symbols (especially if the Defender is spending Shields).
     
    Ealthril likes this.
  12. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Ok, so, let's consider 8-Ball Attacking an Adjacent Mushashi with "Eat my Fa Jing!".

    Let's assume that 8-Ball gets :2::1::3:, :2::1::3: on his :,: and :-:.

    While Mushashi gets :1::1::3:, :2::1::3: on his :*: and :-: defense.

    As the attacker 8-Ball decides who gets to Switch first (a change from the usual assumption that these choices are made by the Underdog).

    If 8-Ball allows Mushashi to Switch first then Mushashi can convert all his :1: results into :2: results using his Generic Switch because they are currently adjacent. These :2:s are added to the result of THIS Face to Face. In this example Mushashi could deal up to 2 :4:by taking 2:4:himself (:2::1::1::1: becomes :2::2::2::2: vs :2::2::1::1: equals :4::4: each).

    However if 8-Ball Switches first, and either uses the Attack Switch on "Eat my Fa Jing!" to Displace Mushashi away, or uses his Generic Switch to Displace himself away, then Mushashi CANNOT use his Generic Switch. This is because 8-Ball's Switch is resolved immediately, thus the two Aristos are NOT adjacent when Mushashi gets to Switch.

    Hopefully that makes sense.
     
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  13. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    Thanks now it's completely clear.