Move + Superjump both using first MOV Value

Discussion in '[Archived]: N4 Rules' started by Teslarod, Sep 20, 2021.

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  1. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    From Move and Superjump:

    upload_2021-9-20_15-29-21.png upload_2021-9-20_15-30-32.png

    Came up today and I'm pretty sure the rules are not supposed to work in the way I'm about to describe the RAW:
    Both Superjump and Move specifcy to use the second MOV Value if you declare the same Short Skill, respectively Move or Jump, again in the same Order (Move and Jump specifically being the Skills in question, because they contain the capital letter).

    Technically a Trooper with Superjump declaring Jump+Move or Move+Jump as Short Skills uses his first Movement Attribute for both Short Skills, since the condition for using the second MOV Attribute is never met by declaring different Skills.

    In conclusion 6-2 Superjumpers like a Hollowman could Move+Jump 6-6 in a single Order.

    Note: doesn't affect C+ since that one alters Move to work on vertical surfaces, hence would still end up as a Move+Move declaration, which doesn't run into the same behaviour.


    I'm fairly certain no one plays it like this (at least I've never seen someone arguing for it), posting to get this fixed if possible rather than exploited.
    Couldn't find a solution to prevent this in the general Movement rules either. Should be easy enough to fix if this is indeed unintended.
     
    #1 Teslarod, Sep 20, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  2. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Closest I can find is the definition of the MOV attribute: "Movement (MOV) The number of inches this Trooper can move with an Order. The MOV Attribute usually has two values: the first time the Trooper moves in an Order, and the second."

    The lower-case "moves" in the last sentence suggests that the trooper uses the second MOV value the second time she moves (using any skill) as opposed to the second time she Moves (using the Move skill).
     
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  3. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Came accross that, but it doesn't say that, both Movement values added being the maximum distance possible per Order isn't even implied.

    upload_2021-9-20_16-9-8.png

    It's using MOV values nondiscriminate, and since we are using the first MOV value twice, there's no conflict with General Movement rules.
    At least as far as I can nail it down.
    Inititial question came from a new player on if he read that correctly and I hate the answer "yes but no, because reasons that don't exist, you gotta believe me I've been playing last edition". Nothing ever good came of sticking to the old version over eventually fixing things in the current one.
     
  4. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    First Move/Jump uses the first MOV value.
    Second Move/Jump uses the second MOV value.

    The rules are badly written, but this is the right way to do it.
    Maybe it will be added to the FAQs queue by your Friendly Neighborood FAQs Fairy
     
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  5. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    That quote is from the GMRs, which I agree don't answer the question. My quote was from the Unit Profile->Attributes->Movement (MOV) rule, not the GMRs.

    My quote does discriminate between the second and first MOV values, defining them as "the first time the Trooper moves in an Order, and the second."

    Anyway, I'm not going to try to argue that it answers the question definitively. To my mind, it's good enough given that nobody actually thinks the Hollow Man is supposed to be able to jump 12", but YMMV.
     
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  6. KGG

    KGG Well-Known Member

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    Mahtamori and QueensGambit like this.
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'm not the fairy you were asking for, but I did add this to the unofficial tracker.
     
  8. HellLois

    HellLois What the Hell...Lois?
    CB Staff

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    this
     
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