Move over edge to look below

So... where do you disagree, exactly?

 

I may have misread the squeeze / vault qualifications you've made, seems we agree after all.

 

If you were on a building with a parapet, could you vault on top of the parapet, without extending past it, and finish totally on the roof? I'm thinking this would allow you to see anything below you and likely still maintain cover.

 

As long as you start and end in a legal position, then vaulting should permit this.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant with this:

That maneuver effectively guarantees LoF to models hugging the base of the wall below (bc geometry) and also raises your model enough to potentially remove cover from someone on a slightly higher level than the roof you're occupying, if it lets part of your silhouette see their whole silhouette due to the height gain.

 

What it doesn't give you is the ability to lean out past horizontal obstructions: this was the most useful use of Lean Out in N3.

 

However, I was never convinced that it was an intended use of Lean Out.

 

Thanks for the good graphic, @Methuselah !

Worth noting is that it won't be enough to see over protrusions such as balconies or into windows on a floor below the trooper, like how Lean Out worked. Also, I think due to geometry and how cover is qualified in this edition, just stepping up to the very edge shouldn't negate your opponent's cover.

 

Why wouldn't it negate the cover?

You can draw an unobstructed line from the model on the edge of the building to the model in contact with the wall (assuming no protuberances).

 

Because I'm not sure it's realistic to assume there exists a line from a spot you can move to that is so perfectly in line with the wall's exterior surface that you can see a miniature touching the wall fully and completely (including the part that's in contact with the wall) but not the wall surface that it is touching.

Unless the building's exterior forms overhangs, including potentially the railing itself (as is the case with most MDF buildings for stacking purposes), in which case the question of cover boils down to the unanswered question from "large irregular buildings"

 

Ah, its a question of perfect geometry.

I'll leave this as a disagreement then. Because this argument tends towards madness :)

 

Yes indeed. We call it the "i-word" on these forums because you can't physically make that precision movement ;)

 

Hmmm, I think I've managed to lose track of the plot in this question.

On reviewing the requirements for Move, I see only half the base needs to be supported, so edging over the edge to enact a "Lean Out" should be fully possible whether with or without the functionality of "squeezing"

 

So the thread is that the text in the rule doesn't say what's intended, because you need to "squeeze" over a bridge, despite the fact that half the base is supported and the other half is unsupported but not in the terrain.

This logic is based on an answer @ijw made while frustrated and responding to a question about moving around corners with the Silhouette half inside of the terrain.

I think there's a reasonable argument that "squeezing" only applies to situations where you need to avoid the SIL phasing into terrain, not where it's unsupported passing over open space.

With IJW's FB answer, it could go either way particularly given that "squeezing" doesn't appear to be covered by the rules text just by the example images.

 

Question is: Is this legal?

 

Assuming that the dark grey is open space.

No, it's not. The model moves in a way that means over half its base is unsupported.

If instead the model moved so that its base was half over the building and half over open space (badly illustrated by me in blue), then the answer is "the rules seem to permit it, but we don't know if it's intentional".

 

Is there a rule reference for this?

 

That half the base needs to be supported?

"Any surface they move on must be at least half as wide as their base."

That a model is ~3mm of its base in contact with a surface and the other 22mm is hanging in free space has more than half its base unsupported. No there isn't a rules reference for that, but I hardly think there needs to be.

Your point is that the edge of a building is likely to be "as wide - perpendicular to the direction of travel - as the base?"

If so, good point, but probably worth raising in a "how does vault work?" thread because it's a wider issue than "using Move to look over an edge".

 

Found under the Move skill. Makes sense. Thanks!

 

So I think this is an illegal move since the parapet is higher on one side that can be vaulted:
“


Conversely, in the second picture, the Trooper may not pass over the obstacle without declaring Jumpor Climb, since the obstacle is higher than the height of the Trooper’s Silhouette Template on one side.”

I know you’re not trying to vault off the edge, but since the parapet is too tall on one side it is an unvaultable piece of terrain it seems.