1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Most overrated unit?

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by yoink101, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    419
    What's the model that you've heard people celebrate, but you can't figure out how to make work? Something that others have regaled the story of the model clearing a deployment zone or winning a game single handedly, but every time you put it on the table, it just seems to die.

    For me, it's the Garuda. I've seen a Garuda do very well. I've witness a Garuda tear through my army. I know that it's a phenomenal unit. Every time I've used a Garuda, it flops. Some of it is dice, some of it must be my own incompetence. I get the Garuda on the table and it might kill a model or two, but then it gets locked down by a repeater net, a stubborn model who makes armor saves, or a lucky crit. I want to love the Garuda, I really do.
     
  2. FlipOwl

    FlipOwl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2019
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    125
    I have a sort of love/hate relationship with the proxy mk.5 FO. I get that it is insanely cost efficient, but I cannot recall spending an order on it without it dying horribly. nowadays I just see it as a tax to unlock the mk.2 sniper that never fails to impress...
     
    yoink101 likes this.
  3. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2019
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    195
    I actually wonder if you might be suffering an expectations issue? When I run my Garuda, I'm not expecting it to get more than 1-2 kills, just do enough to throw a wrench in the other player's strategy. So I've been perfectly happy with those results.

    My issue has been the Zayin Rebot.
    A Total Reaction HMG should be plug-and-play, right? I don't think I've ever had it take more than 2-3 orders and 0 kills for an enemy to put it unconscious. I've just stopped taking it, even if i think i need defensive AROs.
     
    yoink101 likes this.
  4. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    419
    That could be it. I could be hoping for more than I should be, in part because I’ve witness a couple of players use them very well. The other side of that coin is that I am able to get a lot of mileage out of Akalis and Ekdromoi (especially Diomedes. Holy crap that dude is amazing) and I feel like the Garuda has so many things going for it with mimetism and a 6-4 move.

    The only way I’ve found the Zayin to work well for me is if I have it cover a lateral zone, instead of looking at my opponent’s table edge, or if I use it offensively. Climbing plus means that I can find some very interesting angles to pick targets that my opponent doesn’t usually want me to get without more work. Climbing has also meant the ability to bypass templates and mines without having to worry about risking the bot before it kills the thing I really want it to kill.
     
    RolandTHTG likes this.
  5. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    496
    Taking a TR bot as a plug and play defensive tool is a massive trap. When I started the game everyone was preaching to me how it was such a good ARO piece. Not only was this a lie then, but with the newer ARO piece that we have access to now, it’s an even bigger lie!

    The good thing about TR bots is that they’re decent back up attack pieces, having an HMG and being able to be hackbuffed allow them to get decent odds.

    That being said, if you use then purely for ARO, they will do what every ARO piece do and die within a couple of orders.

    Every half decent lists have a way to deal with TR bot with overwhelming odds, some can even delete it unopposed by imposing enough modifiers.
     
    RasPuto, colbrook and RolandTHTG like this.
  6. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2019
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    195
    Lol. Yoink, I have to apologize.
    I just had my first spitfire Garuda rampage in my game tonight vs Spiral Corps. I slipped him in turn 2 on a flank that had been left unprotected. I then got 5 kills in 5 orders, a 6th wound to de-symbiont armor a key tohaa model, and then he had to use three orders and trade a flamethrower trooper to remove it from it's suppressive fire position in the middle of his lines.
    I now know the exact experience you hunger for each time you use the Garuda.

    Despite the above usage if the spitfire, I think it might be best to get some experience with the Garuda boarding shotgun. That's what I've previously only run, and it's short range bands are good for training your mind in focusing on only one target at a time. You also become acutely aware of your vulnerability to AROs, and that's helped me make sure that I only bring the Garuda out where it can get 1-1 or 1-dodge fights. With the spitfire instead of the BSG this time, I used the same process, going cautiously and rarely using the full 6in in a straight line, making it so that I faced only one enemy at a time. The better range bands meant I went a different direction than the BSG Garuda would have, but I used the same target selection criteria.
    Additionally, with the BSG being only 21 pts and 0 swc, I probably would have traded it on my third order in attempt to shotgun blast a line of cheerleaders on his backline. I say traded because I would have had to get within flame thrower range of 1 trooper in order to shotgun the 2 troopers behind him. (As it turned out, one of those 2 was the enemy's LT, so even a BSG with just 1-2 killed would have had an important kill. ) Going in knowing you'll likely have to trade the Garuda for a kill helps cushion the inevitable loss.
     
    DukeofEarl and yoink101 like this.
  7. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    251
    My thoughts on Zayin:
    The TR bot should not see and be seen from beyond the objectives, you are trying to cover. In the enemy deployment zone, there are all the answers to a TR, but three orders towards you, there will be less counterunits and the specialists working in the midfield often lack an appropriate answer to burst 4 HMG. I always try to put him on a flank.
     
    RolandTHTG, colbrook and Nenyx like this.
  8. regelridderen

    regelridderen Dismember

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    384
    Always expect your opponent to be able to kill, whatever you put in his way. The opponent dictates the odds by choosing when and what to engage, so he should win every shoot-out. And TR bots are easy to deal with with camo, smoke, MSV2 and possibly cover and a preferable range band.

    The key to the reactive turn is to force your opponent to waste as many orders with minimal risk to your own. A daikini with suppressions fire in cover can be a much bigger obstacle than a TR bot, simply due to the negative modifiers it stacks.

    If you want the zayin to work for you, you’ll need ways to deal with the threats towards it and do so fast. After that, a pair of zayin can dominate the game.
     
    yoink101, Golem2God and Stiopa like this.
  9. Kir

    Kir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    95
    Remember that the zayin has climbing plus, you have to think vertical to put it in a really awkward spot for your enemy.
     
    yoink101 likes this.
  10. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,521
    Likes Received:
    7,549
    Yeah, TR bots do much better when you either remove threats to them quickly, or deploy them in a way that narrows opponent's choices how to deal with it.