Conceptually, for me, the Neuro Feuerbach is the hardest one for me to support. To me, burst 2 in ARO does not feel like enough of a deterrent, especially at BS 13 with no mods. Burst 4 seems great as you are mostly fishing for crits during the reactive turn. I hope it works and let us know how it goes.
Conceptually, I'm still struggling with all of them :-) But my theory with the Feuerbach is that it covers more of the board. The Neuro VR is good defense from rambos, but we have decent defense from rambos already. The Feuerbach is the first time we've had a unit that might be able to obstruct the opponent from scoring midfield objectives or even getting out of their DZ. What I envision is: - They can't reasonably Discover it since Discover against a long-range target is 50/50 and guessing which decoy is correct is 50/50, so if they try to Discover they waste a bunch of initial orders. - Instead their best play is to start advancing a cheap specialist, which we kill (B2 is a lot more reliable than B1 for the kill here). - Now that we're revealed, they have to spend orders on a big gun, and this will waste a few more of their orders thanks to ARM 4, STR 2, and the B2 ARO stopping some of their shots from getting through. - Thanks to Remote Presence, it's almost impossible to kill the but, so when wounded or unconscious it goes prone to safety, and comes back next turn thanks to the Monstrucker. Whereas I worry that the Neuro VR can more easily be just avoided because it can't cover much of the table with 16" rangebands. Unfortunately I don't know if I'll be able to test it anytime soon - the list was for a tournament but the other two missions are Countermeasures and Supremacy, and since Countermeasures is so list-specific I think I need one list that can play Supplies and Supremacy (!). And I don't see my Cratebot list working for Supremacy...
I feel like given its advanced deployment a AP Spitfire is even better here because it also threatens their big armor dudes who would be fighting it. 8-24 is a great range band for midfield Neuro threat.
Ok so I ran the Neurocinetics viral rifle last night. It overperformed in terms of being a camo threat (my opponent failed a lot of discover rolls needing 10s and 11s) which was actually something that I could take risks on because a Sunduq wasn't necessarily going to actually be badly threatened by some random marksman guy taking a couple shots at it as part of a split burst. However, when the pinch came to actually fight, although it got a couple kills, the viral range bands hurt where I'd deployed it. I think I could feasibly have deployed it tighter in where the range bands would have been maximised, but if I'd done that I was giving up a degree of board control. The AP Spitfire in the same place, although more expensive, would have probably performed significantly better. I also felt the pinch in lack of heavy firepower, with all the list effectively concentrated at short range. I'd assumed this was tolerable due to the scenario being acquisition, but I actually kind of felt the absence of e.g. an Azrail. As it was, the Lasiq viral marksman did... I'm not going to say well, she didn't actually kill that much, but she did force twenty-five DAM14 BTS saves in four face to face rolls, it's just that my opponent only failed one of them on BTS0, 3 and 6 models.
So, thumbs down for the viral box. I viewed that little death blossom as something to place near an objective, but I’m assuming there would be more lines of sight on it. So, spitfire it is. It is just more flexible really. And, the MMR Lasiq seems like it would have done a ton of work had your opponent not been using loaded dice! lol jk. I’ve had this happen where the opponent is rolling fistfuls of dice every action every turn and nothing seems to die. The MMR is a success in my book, but I am really struggle even considering the deadly jack in the box outside of meme lists.
I like the miniature, yet I will definitely have to do something with the weird gun. The winner of the set is the Shujae for me. Great miniature. Nice that they gave him SMG on side. As it is from time to time with CB - it's another miniature looking like a CC specialist, that really can't do much in CC ;) PozdRawiam / Greetings
I like the unusual gun as it can cover all profiles. I like all the Haqqislam models. The Muyib is now a bulky boy. I look forward to the box.
Always goofy how they do stuff like that. Honestly just bump the shujae cc up to 19 and give him a shock ccw then it would make sense visually and i would even consider stabbing a line trooper or 2.
Hehe totally agreed. Though the Muyib seems more Djan (given the move from the original to the last rendition and going forward).
Had my first proper hot result with the Sunduq last night. Running the neurocinetics AP Spitifre profile. Lost the roll, my opponent goes first. He baits the Sunduq out by second-skill moving a varangian into LOF of both it and the decoy and I choose to take that bait and ace it. He then moves his Gamma up to engage but I'm positioned reasonably well and he has to do so at ~20". He, uh, he died in reactive, in one volley. DAM15 AP leaves a mark.
“He, uh, he died in reactive, in one volley. DAM15 AP leaves a mark.“ That had me cackling. I then looked up the Gamma trooper and holy smokes it’s ridiculously powerful! 4 wounds for 53 points on a stat heavy body and complementary HMG +1B! Busted much?!
My apologies but its late here and im half asleep but did the sunduq kill the gamma or vice versa cause the last sentence seems vague. Also related to QueensGambit and infyrana, i think ill use the shujae and sunduq as intended but im going to use the Muyib as a proxy Prospector. Especially since haqq didnt get one and CB was pretty open design wise about what counts as a HI miner.
I think you miscalculated there a bit. It's two wounds + NWI, so two-and a half wounds. But it is a powerful piece. I played against it with my Uhlan last time, and it really is its little brother. And it killed the Uhlan. B3 Feuerbach is no joke.
Has anyone had any success using the Sunduqbut as an active sweeper? While Neurocinetics is fun, ~50 pts seems weird to be only for ARO.
Yes. 49 pts / 0.5 swc for a burst 4 and +1 damage viral rifle, 2W, and mines is very good. It's slightly overcosted on points, I think, but undercosted on swc. For example, if I take guided (1.5swc), a hacker (0.5swc), a mukhtar red fury (1 swc), knauf (1.5swc), and a liberto (1 swc) then I'm on 5.5swc. I have a midrange, low damage shooter in the mukhtar, and a long range, high damage shooter in Knauf. But nothing that can go bully heavy infantry in the midboard all that well. I don't have the swc for an Asawira, and guided in the active turn can be a bit unreliable (or expensive in orders). So I want a midfield bully piece that can answer HI for 0.5 swc. It has to be the Sunduqbut, right? You either drop the Liberto (I think?), and take an Asawira. Or you take the Sunny. So I tried the latter - I took Sunny. It's a good piece, in my opinion. Firstly it's defensively strong due to minelayer and being in camouflage. Unlike most other active tun guns (Mukhtar / Asawira), it contributes to your game plan before you've even spent a single order on it (with the mine). On the board it appears exactly like a Liberto if you don't use decoy (so you get a single mim0 marker, and a single mim3 marker - identical to a Liberto). You can obviously fake out having some kind of camo, midfield hacker like an Al Hawwa, which is spooky for a lot of factions, and so causes them to adjust movement. (Sunny doesn't deploy as far forward as an Al Hawwa, but you can still fake it mediocrely well). Then of course you get the active turn power. Firstly, the single use marker gives you at least 8" of movement to get around repeaters. Sunny and Bokhtar (both the new HIs) lack Stealth. This can be a massive issue in some matchups. Sunny at least gets a marker, so you can cope with this a little bit. Then the gun. BS13 doesn't seem amazing but burst 4, damage 14, DA really is absurd. It lags behind the Asawira slightly vs ARM4 / BTS6 targets (Shang Ji for example). But this is probably the worst case scenario for a Sunny vs Asawira comparison. In most other cases, the Sunny puts out comparable or better numbers in terms of F2F odds. It IS harder to deliver to targets (a bit slower, and shorter range). But one of the great advantages is that you're really rewarded if you do. If you catch a BS15 TAG in that 8-16 band (so you're on +3, and the TAG is on +0), you've got a roughly 25% chance of instantly stripping two wounds off the thing. It's probably one of the best guns in Haqqislam for aggressively pushing into deployment zones. The viral will shred most weak targets, and outperform AP vs high ARM lower BTS troops (e.g. ARM8, BTS6 TAGs). It starts 20" up the field due to FD+8". With a single move-move, you're past the halfway line and with a second you're probably on the edge of the enemy DZ. You can do this whilst ignoring AROs if you're smart with the marker state. It's just.....good. Really good. Just watch out for hackers when you've revealed. And of course if you DO encounter a difficult target, you can do the classic "deploy a mine around the corner" trick to force the enemy to dodge instead of shoot. I don't think it's going to become an evergreen take - good in all lsits and situations. The Asawira is 39. This is 49. And so it's kind of problematic that it's only just better in a lot of F2F rolls. BUT. If you want a piece that doesn't cost a lot of swc, can bully HI, AND that actively contributes to your defence then yeah, I think Sunny is excellent.
That's a great write up, @HeadChime . I definitely have to try it when I get the mini (soon TM ;) ). I also think that putting 50ish points into only AROing is a big investment, but have to try it too. Especially that I like using things, that not everyone think are good ;) From the stats I think both Viral Rifle and AP Spitf are looking decent and interesting, both in ARO and in active turn. From the new things I used Bokhtar as an active killer and I like her very much. She's expensive, but deadly. I think that Sun can be even more devastating against tougher enemies, so it's a good thing. PozdRawiam / Greetings
