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Morat agression force. Whyyyyyyyy

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Wonderman1st, Oct 4, 2020.

  1. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    OK, now I think I know where the fundamental disagreement is.

    Infinity is absolutely not a game of making back your points. If a Zerat kills the Fusilier that's providing the +3 BS MOD to a Kamau Sniper, allowing a Sogarat AP HMG, or linked Suryat, or linked Kornak etc. to take down the Kamau, that Zerat was worth her points even if she immediately dies afterwards without doing anything else.

    I have no idea what you're trying to say. :-(
     
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  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I think he's trying to say that it isnt fair that Morats constantly wait for an upgrade or buff while most other armies wait for a nerf? and he would prefer the opposite to be true?
     
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  3. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Yeah, I'm calling bull on this one.

    I've used the red fury zerat to remove ARO threats. A lot. Like, i've used her in most of my MAF games last year and she always delivered. Hell, I used her in Vanilla CA and she still delivered (Because nobody likes a Red Fury that starts that close to their deployment zone).

    I mean, come on! She has Infiltration and a Burst 4 Shock gun that has an 8-24 good range! Even if your opponent has MSV, it's easy for her to get under their good range and just pulverize the dude. Anything short of a Linked Kamau will have troubles with her, and if it is a linked Kamau, then that's why we have the heavy infantry and the Raicho.

    I mean, of course she's not good at killing stuff in a straight up fight! That's not what she was made for. With Infiltration and her terrain bonus, she is perfect for catching enemies out of cover and turning them into bloody pulp.

    Also, Kornak now can allow us to keep 2 models in reserve, so guess what? You can keep the Zerat in reserve AND a big hitter so your oponent doesn't have answer for both of them. Come on, mate, start thinking out of that box!
     
  4. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    Right. I always see my army as a puzzle I need to put together in order to unlock victory. I place each piece carefully and deliberately, always keeping in mind the pieces I haven't placed yet and where they will go. Sometimes I have to place a piece and let it die in order to allow another piece to be placed. Sometimes one piece doesn't seem significant, but ends up being the center of the puzzle.

    A lot of my games end up like chess matches, where I stare at the board until I se checkmate, then play X orders to get there.

    Anyway, sacrificing a Zerat or a Daturazi or even a Yaogat to remove a key piece from my enemy and create an opening is usually a good move.
     
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  5. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    If thats what he's saying, I do agree. As I said earlier, it usually seems like Morats get their buff just as every other army is moving on to something better. So yeah, it would be nice to be on the other side of that. but really, N4 feels like a good place for MAF. For teh irst time ever I feel like we'r on the same level as everyone else.
     
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  6. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I dont have a ton of experience with MAF, pretty much none at all outside of list building for fun - but they seem to be in an alright place. I think some QoL improvements could be made, like Anyat being straight wildcard. to be honest it feels a little antiquated she isn't. Rodoks could have also used an msv1 profile on one of their weapons. that would have been decent and a nice buff since their in a slightly tougher space now. also Kurgat wildcard could have been a fun thing.
     
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  7. FlipOwl

    FlipOwl Well-Known Member

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    I think, although I can’t be sure of course, that the reason Anyat didn’t get Wildcard is so the Yaogat link can’t get a DISCOUNT for getting embedded smoke. That would have been bonkers good...
     
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  8. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    that's definitely the reason i suggest she be full wildcard - but "bonkers good" is debatable considering changes to smoke and what other factions are pulling at this point.
     
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  9. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    I think a Kurgat wildcard might have kept Kurgat Haris from ever seeing the table again.
     
  10. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    that's fine.
    how often do we see a vet-kazak haris, or a kamau haris/core, or an asawira haris now, or an umbra haris, or a Karhu haris. The list kind of goes on and on....
     
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  11. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Rammah has had embedded smoke and MSV2 in the same link for ages. It didn't suddenly make them meta.
     
  12. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    I'd also add my doubts\thoughts on n4 morats:
    Overall - I'm happy with changes (not the quality, but the fact we have any... I always feel soorry about morats, as it was my first faction I've started to play Infinity, I played morats my first tournaments)

    Doubtfull changes:

    Kurgats - why to make those more expensive? Now I have to choose between engineer utility\doctor worm utility\rodoks firepower\ cheaper vanguards\ raktoraks+yougat mix... And usually - for me there is no win for kurgats - they are very difficult to make them shine
    Sogorats - previeous full auto l2 feurbach variant was more interesting, as its firepower was the best one in the army (even comparing to linked rodoks hmg and raicho)... but any way he is cheaper, lost funny regeneration, got NWI... I guess his changes are neutral in the result...
    Gaki\Preta - no control device, CC is 20 now, gaki got berserk for no cost...and being in link won't give regular order... Looks like gaki\preta changed a little bit their role, lost "order-bank" option, remained to be impetus-look-for-enemy-defence-holes creatures... which is a little bit sad, as Morats have pretty expensive units (even in N4 comparing to other factions) and now you have to choose between AWESOME daturazi and situation-dependable gaki\preta...
    Yoagats - one profile was risen above others, which is little bit...sad... again... why only sniper became a real scary true-hunter? Another...pure estitical minus - why miniatures have grenades, but profiles itself have no grenades at all? :(((
    Suryat msv1 rocket launcher -
    immunity to AP, igonre those nasty -3 mimitism - became best ARO option in army...? (well ok... default TR-mimitism-bot is probably better..still...)
    Oznat - well that is the most sad part - in my opinion those unit lost any use in army... like at all... sensor seems to be great - but do not overestimate it - discovering camo, do not solves problem automaticaly, you still need orders and chances to eliminate threat, and you've just spent orders on smth you might not be able to complete. She is more expensive comparing to awesome daturazi, you can take two pretas\ four gakis and on of her role - to make links with preats\gakis ... to do what -> sacrifice 4 regular orders from group to move short-range units? One daturazi has devastion power comparable to whole Oznat link...


    Positive changes:

    Zerats... maybe... finaly... they will see table often and not only in morats, but in vanila combine army too :) (probably not, shasvastii added some pretty strong alternatives :( )? Overall - nice, pity they don't have minelayer by default, as you probably will meet a lot of scirmishes with mines and camo in mid field, so some additional defence would be nice...but still... being more expensive ruyken-9 with better weaponary and infiltration is still fun and brings some options to the table.... though miniature with multi sniper is still probably will be for used for proxy use only ;(
    Yoagat - oh boy... soooo tempting burst 4 multisniper in haris with raktoraks....
    Rasyat - being a new van zant does gives more to Morats... but hell....because every fun option in morats is expensive you will find out that fitting this guy into the list withou sacrifising smth will be a problem ;(

    Daturazi - yes...make them even more scary. Give them +1B to chain rifle, give them berserk, rise CC, give them DA cc weapon... they were a must unit before, and only became even more demanding now.
    new Taryot - nice cheap AD unit with some juice - when you lack money for rasyat

    I'm just disspointed that changes to most factions performed by people who do not play often some tournaments, but has some kind of "vision" ...a mystic one, not shareable publicly ;( and half of faction becomes unplayble, difficult to use and doubtful ;(

    Reading thread posts, where someone already played N4 several games and shares some real experience made me even more sad, as Wonderman1st only confimrs my fears ;(
     
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  13. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Edit: Wtf the post I was replying to was like 3 pages in. Have deleted it and tried to post something constructive since I don't see a "delete post" option!

    I generally agree with the Morat love here, but also with the core concept of their army - Morats don't get access to "stuff thats good in Infinity".

    I also disagree heavily with the Datz "being better at CC" in this edition. Between loss of 1 burst but also, crucially, the addition of CC points to most models, he's good but he's not a CC killer like he was before. That said, the 14 point profile is the best its ever been by a lot due to Impetuous changes and double chain rifles.

    Super, duper stoked at the Zerat and the Rasyat changes and the Raicho feels like a Morat TAG now. Also like LT Kornak, but really dislike it when armies are dominated by particular named characters. Other changes I'm pretty neutral on atm

    Morats definitely feel the most playable they ever have IMO. Overall, really good changes.
     
    #93 WiT?, Oct 6, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  14. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    That’s not how the maths works out, though. They’re substantially better at CC than they were in N3, even ignoring the addition of Berserk, and enough PH to Dodge into position to use it.
     
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  15. Adra

    Adra Member

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    All I know for sure is that I have a fear of the MAF that I did have in N3. Overall they seem to have had a fair amount of attention paid to them. But....if people are determined to find faults, then faults they will find, whether they exist or not.
     
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  16. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    Can you unpack that for me? I haven't read the close combat section of the new rules, but (ignoring Berserk) Daturazi don't seem subaerially better now than under the N3 version of MA4. What am I missing?
     
  17. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    CC 23+MA4 now means Daturazi get +3 to CC and +3 to DAM as well as a -3 on the oponent. This bumps them all the way to CC26, meaning they get a +6 to any roll. A lot more accurate in landing their blows. And said blows are now DAM17 DA hits. It is a lot of damage.

    Compared to CC21 with Burst 2 in N3... Yeah, that's way, way better.
     
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  18. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Because MA is now cumulative, they lost 1 B, but gained +3/-3 and +3 DAM to their DA attack...

    Speculo'd.
     
  19. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Martial Arts 4 had changed from Burst 2 to +3/-3 and +3 DAM to PH weapons.

    Because of the way attributes over 20 work this means that N4 MA4 is less likely to take damage, and is more likely to deal at least one wound than the N3 version.

    In addition the base version got a DA CCW and Berserk.
     
  20. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all for the explanation.
     
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