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Morat agression force. Whyyyyyyyy

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Wonderman1st, Oct 4, 2020.

  1. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Y
    To expand on what Aldo said, here is the rules text saying they can be combined:

    50D5F708-543D-4209-9D68-FDF8DC21480B.jpeg

    So the Dāturazi is on 35% to Crit. But due to the way Martial Arts has changed, the critical is less important, because the remaining 65% of rolls when using Berserk will still be a Damage 17 DA hit. Against an ARM4 target that’s about 40% chance of causing 2W on the non-critical hit.
     
  2. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    But you can take Fireteams without wildcards, and still use them to assault. Rokaks and Yaogats are both solid assault units, with lots of tools. Yes, they're BS12, but one brings Mimetism and the other MSV2. You don't HAVE to use a Suryat. In fact, teh Yaogat is going to outshoot the Suryat against any target with Mimetism, and the Rodak is going to outshoot the Suryat against any target that doesn't have MSV. The Suryat is a good all around choice, but he's only one tool in our box.

    Although... personally I think all of these flexible links are a double edged sword. On one hand, the flexibility and choice is nice. But it leads us toward "best possible combinations.: We've already seen the MAF version of that in multiple threads (Kornak+Anyat+Suryat+Raktorak+Van Medic), and its popping up in other armies too. Variety only really matters if theres not a best possible choice that everyone uses. I'm hoping as we all experiment with the new options we see lots of neat lists, and not just "best in slot" options.
     
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  3. Wonderman1st

    Wonderman1st Member

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    the only unit in MAF that can outshoot everything is still trbot with assisted fire=))))
     
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  4. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Yup, this is an inherent issue with the current fireteam/wildcard system that will hopefully be addressed at a later stage. I'm glad CB left this passage out of the rulebook, because it indicates they are very aware of the fact that fireteams will need several reworks.
     
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  5. Wonderman1st

    Wonderman1st Member

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    by the way - maybe the great advance would be if some of our leits would recieve inspiring presence. this would totally fix hungries/oznat prblm.
    just thinking loud=)
    and still i dont' think that harris option for yoagat on aro is something diceproof=)
    suryat in harris with hrl is more diceproof and he is only 10 pts higher and can go in cheap core
     
  6. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Yaogat MSR are made for the active turn anyway, since the +1B from their loadout only applies there. In reactive, they are "just" a BS 12 MSR with MSV 2.
     
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  7. Wonderman1st

    Wonderman1st Member

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    by the way, one more thing just came to my mind - MAF is not so competetive in tournament way as the tier 1 armies. because in one case you will need alldrop, in other case you will need suryat with happy friend, in the third case you will need specialists/ and you only have 2 lists on 5 missons with different opponents. when we speak of the best version of the wildcard based fireteam - this is only good for the tournaments were we have to eject the most powerfull essence from the faction.
    if someone paid attention on the VaulSC campain where the CRUSADE won, we have to admit, that there were few days to recearch the map, to find out your opponent, to decide wich units do you need. this playstyle is ok also and for MAF. but in tournament way - lacking of flexibility
     
  8. Wonderman1st

    Wonderman1st Member

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    but in attack it is very expensive=) and also we do not want bs 12 in attack. even for 4 dices. there are better options. for example suryat - he will shoot 5 dice on 13 in cover and mimet 3
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Suryats don’t have Mimetism.
     
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  10. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    I think he means a Suryat in a 5 model fireteam at +3 range will hit an opponent with mim -3 and cover on a 13.
     
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  11. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Well, it's a trade-off, isn't it?

    Suryats roll an additional die at BS13, are more resilient when hit and can add a firewall as well as order efficiency with TacAwareness.

    Yaogats bring Mimetism -3, MSV 2 and multi ammo instead, which does fulfill a different role at a lower price point.

    They are two fairly distinct options, both of which will likely have their place. In my opinion, looking for the "best" option is a futile undertaking, since that will always depend on several factors which may vary from game to game.
     
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  12. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Now I am more confused
     
  13. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    I wish Yaogats had Mimetism -3.

    Can we just lose Rodaks and give Yaogats Mimetism and Mines?

    Anyway, you're right. 2 different approaches. both useful.
     
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  14. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Imagine how confused I am.
     
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  15. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    What does the raktorak add to this link?
     
  16. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Rodoks are another option altogether, different from both Suryats and Yaogats. And they, too, have their place.

    MAF was made much stronger andmore flexible in this update, people. I don't have first-hand experience with them yet, but after what I saw I would feel pretty confident taking them against any of the so-called "first-tier armies"

    NCO and VSG?
     
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  17. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    You know, MAF may work best in a lot of missions without focusing on fireteams at all. I haven't played any N4 games with MAF yet, or any N3 games since before Daedelis (SP?) Falls, but through most of N3 I ran a list with no fireteams that focused on 2 Zerats, 2 Yaogats, Anyat, a Vanguard Hacker and lots of hungries and Daturazi. It struggled with some missions, but was great with others.

    It seems like we have even more solid non- fireteam options now. Both Sogarats and many of the Suryats are solid solo pieces. Zerats and Daturazi are better than ever. Oznats are fast if you need fast (I know I was just crapping on them, but...), the Yoagat sniper is a sold solo attack piece, and other Yaogats are good camo hunters. The Drop Suit is an okay surprise specialist. Hungries are as disruptive as ever. The Rasyat has a Specialist profile. Kurgats are better shooters.

    I agree that building a generalist MAF list for tournaments where you just don't know what you'll be facing can be challenging. But the good news is that its easier now than it ever has been.
     
  18. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Can't Kornak donate his 2 LT orders to anything anywhere, making NCO redundant? VSG I can see, but its a lot of points jump from the admittedly poor value Vangaurd
     
  19. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Number 2 to keep the Fireteam if the Team Leader goes down, potentially NCO, another Specialist, Vulcan Shotgun or a backup high-Burst weapon.
     
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  20. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    Or a heavy flamethrower, if you want a large template. Plus, a third specialis, and a more durable body than just another Vanguard. But you could also fill this slot with a Vanguard FO, I guess. IDK, I was just listing the combination that I've seen several people post.