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Monofilament

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Rannith, Jan 27, 2018.

  1. Rannith

    Rannith Well-Known Member

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    @Hecaton When does it stop being bad luck and become a statistical trend?
    I’m sorry, I’m not really serious about that. I know that the mathematics does support the theory but if someone has not ever seen the theory work in practice it is hard for them to expect it to change in the future.
    But I think we have probably worn this to the bone and I truly did not come on here trying to provoke an argument.
    As I have said I will try the specialists in N3 and see. If I can ever get a game.
    Actually one serious question of the three specialists which do you think is the most vital/reliable for Pan-O?
     
  2. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Out of Doctor, Hacker or Engineer?

    If I was just picking one, I'd go with Hacker. REMs are critical to every list I play, and I can't include them with a list without some kind of Hacking Device.

    After that, I go with the Doctor. I like using ARO pieces aggressively, to challenge enemy movement and projecting table control. Doctors are valuable if this units get knocked Unconscious. Since they tend to be operating with expensive long-range weapons close to my deployment zone, healing them is usually a good investment while also coating few Orders.

    Engineer can be the most critical, if you're running a TAG or play in a meta with lots of E/M, Jammers or Hacking. Fixing Isolated or Immobilized units is important, and supporting your TAGs is too.
     
  3. Rannith

    Rannith Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Barakiel, I’ll try to sort out which to go for. I would like to say my area has a meta bu I only know one person who plays N3 and I barely see him once a month if I’m lucky.
    Well a list comprising a Hacker, A Trauma Doc and an Engineer (with Tech Bee if I can find one). Should be unbeatable.
     
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    If the dice are random, never (at least not in the way that you mean).
     
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  5. Rannith

    Rannith Well-Known Member

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    I just seem to have been on the functional side of some rather consistent statistical anomalies.
    The way you were talking about the percentages before indicates a more than passing familiarity with the hard maths side. I was serious before when I asked for your suggestion of the most reliable of the specialist classes. Would you be willing to give me some advice on that?
     
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  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It totally depends on what your list makeup is like and what you're trying to do with it. Some lists will have no need for an engineer, other lists will be dead in the water without it. I will say that, imo, doctors are less useful because many things that engineers can fix have two levels of unconsciousness, and thus are more likely to be found in a repairable state. OTOH usually more things in your army have wounds than structure.

    If you have no need for specialists to make your list work but need them for the scenario, generally forward observers are a good choice. Cheap, and often the flash pulse gives them a better ARO option in the 16-24" range band. Not everyone has access to them, however; some profiles only have a hacker specialist, for example.
     
  7. Rannith

    Rannith Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, If I can, when playing Pan-O at least I will probably go for a fairly TAG/REM heavy list. Would you think an eng or a hacker for preference under those circumstances?
     
  8. Exile

    Exile New Member

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    TAG + Rem? Both. With a support bot for the Engineer.
    TAG? Engi first, Killer Hacker (to defend your TAG second)
    REM Heavy? Standard Hacker, then Engineer. An Isolated REM is less of a capacity and threat loss than an Isolated TAG (and, as mentioned before, the Engineer can fix that)

    Oh. And please do try the Spitfire Bulleteer in Supressive Fire placed in cover. It's a doozy.
     
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  9. Rannith

    Rannith Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Exile. is there a Minelayer REM? I used to love running these spider guys around dropping mines all over the place.
    I will take a TAG if I can get a multi-purpose one otherwise I will see if I can assemble the two or three boxes of OLD dronebots before I run out of patience and just glue the unassembled pieces to a base and call it done.
     
  10. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    No minelayer Remotes, I'm afraid.

    Best multipurpose TAG in PanO is Tikbalang. BS 15 HMG, flamethrower, mines, and the whole thing has Mimetism and Climbing Plus :smilingimp:
     
  11. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Doctors (and paramedics) by their existence force the enemy to try and kill unconscious models, because there is the chance they will get up again.

    That makes it well worth it.

    Now on statistics, they are and are not important, knowing the chance of something happening is important in decision making, knowing something is more possible than another thing is an important resource, that does not mean it will happen ever, the dice may roll the numbers you need and average out in a thousand years, well after it was ever important, that does not mean the predictive model is wrong or useless.

    It is something I try to explain to my player group, the chances of something happen and actually happening is not the same thing.
     
  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Wrong faction, but I've got a theory that Wildcat Engineers are actually more useful than Clockmakers. Because most of the time you don't actually need to engineer things you just need to threaten to engineer things.
     
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  13. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Yes and no. From my experience against CJC Wildcats tend to advance to the middle of the table, bringing the Engineer with them. Clockmaker or Zondbot is just as threatening near TR remote, as is Wildcat Engineer near damaged Iguana.
     
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  14. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I meant using a Wildcat Engineer with Zondbots in Vanilla. Use the zondbot to threaten repair a TR remote/actually repair rems but push into the midfield to push buttons, where your BS13 + LFT does some good.
     
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  15. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Ah yes, that would work nicely. I'm not used to such active solo Engineers, though it might change when I'll start playing Phalanx more.
     
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  16. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    I think this depends on what you are trying to engineer.

    Remotes? Wildcat will do great because you have a re-roll and two unconsciousness states.

    90 point manned TAG? I want that 15 WIP mightily. Arm 11 after cover is hard to do 4 points of damage to without weapons designed for the role. Your opponent might run out of orders after doing 2-3 & a 75% chance is way more comforting than a 65%
     
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  17. Rannith

    Rannith Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good to me, I’ll take a six pack of them!!!

    Is there a reason the BS and CC skill levels seem to ramp so differently?
    CC 20+? not that uncommon BS 15+? I could build a TAG out of hen’s teeth more easily
     
  18. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    CC is almost always limited to B1 and it requires getting into Base to Base.

    Without 20+ CC the close combat troopers wouldn't even be competent at what they do much less good at it.
     
  19. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    In N2 you needed the old MA3 (first strike) or berserk to be good at CC because BS and CC levels were so close.

    In N3 first strike was removed from the game (thank deity of choice) so CC needs to be significantly higher to reliably win F2F rolls.
     
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  20. Rannith

    Rannith Well-Known Member

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    I see, I was just a bit surprised. I was looking at the profiles of the characters from the Outrage comic and this supremely capable ex spec ops sniper has a BS of 13 bud a CC of 15 or 16? The last thing a sniper should be doing is getting into spitting range of the enemy. It just seemed odd though, since most sniper rifles seem to have a Burst value of 1 or 2, for them to be identical to someone with a B4 HMG seems a little skewed.