But less versatile, in fact that is something I have noticed in the Sierra and the Cutter and the Aquila, I thought it had been across the board but now it seems it was just the ones I played most before have become one trick ponies. It seems now the only thing a tag does is carry a HMG, Sierra used to be a nifty minelayer Anti-Personnel or monofilament or em gl launcher although I must admit I don’t think I ever used that option. Now the only thing it does is carry a HMG for a saving of 3 points. Supportware? Needs a hacker. And what do you mean harder to remove from play? Str 1 still only takes one hit and a mission kill is just as effective as a hard kill.
You might want to consider changing factions, then. N3 PanO is much more specialized than before. Units do one thing very, very well, but have few options aside from that. Compare YJ or Haqq, which units are often multipurpose, or at least have backup equipment or weapons. It's not clear in which direction it'll evolve. Most recent additions were the good but boring Kamau, but also interesting toolboxes like Locusts or MRifle Black Friar. Some of our HIs are streamlined - Swiss, Aquila - but knights are all-rounders. Cutter is indeed a one (nasty) trick pony, but Tikbalang or Seraph have multiple weapons and thus options. The list goes on.
Yea, but now he has Super-Jump and great haeay anchor (talk about anti-synergy within 1 unit ^^). We can only dream about being Aleph with custom made rules ^^
Everything you're describing is a deliberate change to all factions, and not just PanO. When they introduced N3, CB wanted units to fulfill more specific roles, and to encourage units to provide overlapping support. You're entirely right in that some PanO units are considerably "worse" than they were before, but these changes aren't really specific to PanO. The changes to weapon rangebands in N3 mean that HMGs in general are no longer the universally "best" gun; they have to be supported by other units as well. With the Cutter, I think it's actually a more lethal gunfighter than it was before. The MULTI HMG now fires Shock or AP at full Burst, and Shock in particular is a fantastic ammunition. The Cutter also gets Fatality Level 1, meaning its HMG is Damage 16. That's nasty. And since I don't like my TO models getting close to the enemy anyway, where nasty surprises like Assault Hackers, shotguns with their +6 range, flamethrowers, etc. all tend to lurk, I don't really mind the Cutter "only" having an HMG. As for Supportware, a Sierra with Marksmanship L2 is considerably better than the old Sierra ever was. Marksmanship Level 2 with Shock is major, especially for knocking down Dogged Warbands or killing enemy snipers who would otherwise fall prone and be doctored back again. And since you need a Hacker to include Remotes in a list anyway, you're not losing much there, unless you're also bringing a TAG... In which case it's still good to have a Hacker, to protect your TAG from other Hackers. So I don't really see that as a loss. Also, units with Remote Presence can suffer 2 "unconscious" Wounds before being removed from play, rather than just a single Wound like living creatures. You can also re-roll repair attempts on Remote Presence by using a Command Token. The result is that an effective BS14 Sierra that can't be "gotcha'd" with oldschool Surprise shot, and is now harder to kill completely, and easier to repair, is a very good unit.
How does the Cutter have Fatality? In fact what is it? I can’t find it in the book at all. Than does seem impressive, I just can’t find it. As for hackers, unfortunately most of the time I don’t have the points for Gabriele de Fersen and after playing with other hackers for about 20 games in which they did nothing but use valuable orders to no effect I gave up on them. Same goes for doctors and engineers, all they do is formally kill “unconscious” models. Some other people may have had different experiences with hackers, doctors or engineers all I can say is that in ALL of the games where I took them their “special ability” rolls never worked and they became just a less useful than normal fusilier. The HMG not being the “best gun in the game” was never the reason I took either the Sierra or the Cutter but now that it is their only weapon that is an issue.
This is ITS9 modification (Fatality Lv1 on all TAGs). Check ITS9 book. Actually it's not exactly "official" as its not a part of TAGs profile, but whenever you use them in "ITS" game (whatever it means exactly) it can enjoy Fatality Lv1 skill. All in all Fatality Lv1 means that all BS weapons using BS attack skill and roll a dice (so not a HFT and not a tactical bow) gets +1DAM on their profiles (so Multi HMG becomes DAM 16).
@Rannith Your 20 games... Are these new games, using N3 rules? Or are these back in N2? One of the big reasons Hackers were changed is to make them more applicable and useful. Supportware is a big part of that. Hackers can be great, but you need to have a role you want to use them for. As for Doctors and Engineers... A Trauma Doc or Machinist who uses a Command Token to re-roll a failure has an 84% chance of success. Pretty good. But you need to think about where to set them up during deployment, so you don't waste too many Orders getting them to wounded or broken units.
Cutter is still awesome as a mobile firebase, but one has to be careful not to get too close to enemy. Sierra is much more specialized now, but all TR remotes are. On the flipside Bulleteer is pure murderbot, especially with Supportware. And no list with a few remotes or a TAG can do without an Engineer. It was the same in N2, though now they've got much more reliable, especially given that all our TAGs use Remote Presence, which also got a boost. We also have one of the best synergy between our EVO remote and rest of the army.
@eciu Ah, that would explain why I haven’t seen it. I don’t have any of the ITS books or materia. I have never had even the slightest interest in ITS events or games. @barakiel, yes those 20 games were using Version 2 rules, I have only had three games of N3. But those approx 20 games were just the ones before I stopped wasting points on hackers, docs and engineers. I went better after that. Not well but better. Besides I’m sure command tokens have a better use than killing a squad mate twice. Unless it is a mini you really, really don’t like. @Stiopa I remember Bulleteers from N2 but they are not listed in my book at all so I don’t know how they stack up.
@Rannith, in this case I'd advise going really carefully through the N3/HSN3 rules and PanO units in Army Builder. The edition was a major game changer, and this includes changes to hacking, repairs, camo, and overall balance. If you want to play PanO without units that you found inferior in N2, especially hackers and engineers, you'll end up seriously handicapping your game.
@Stiopa I’ve been going through N3 book but have not been able to get hold of HSN3. I just don’t see anything in that book at least that makes 90% of Pan-O hackers anything but wasted points to say nothing of Docs and Eng. It was hackers, engs and docs that were handicapping my game, actually that’s not fair, it was my lack of ability that was the main handicap but having three unit types that never, not rarely or usually not but never in all the games I played them in succeeded at a roll for their main purpose didn’t help.
I understand. So here's the quick and dirty summary. Our hackers come in three varieties. - Killer Hackers (Hexa in vanilla and NCA, Naga in SAA) are there to kill enemy hackers before they'll be able to do nasty things to our heavy units. Both have camo, which makes them fairly safe from enemy hackers and gives them surprise factor. Also, KHDs can easily use enemy Repeaters to launch their cyber attack. They also cost all three points. - Assault Hackers function is mostly to do nasty things to enemy heavy units. Most of the time this means inflicting IMM-1 or Isolated state. The latter is especially nasty, since it means not only the model becomes Irregular but also cannot receive other orders from its order pool. Isolation can only be removed by an Engineer. - Standard Hackers have a bit of everything, but their high point is Supportware, which can change a standard remote into a murder machine. Most popular choice is to give Sierra or Armbots Marksmanship L2 (shots ignore cover and have Shock ammo type in addition to the standard one). EVO remote can use few additional programs, and there's an option to start the game with one. Useful thing when going second. As barakiel mentioned, Engineers can now use Command Tokens to re-roll their repair roll when working on Remote Presence units. Which means all our Remotes and TAGs. As I've said they're also the only way to deal with Isolation, which will come up, since your enemies will take hackers. We've also got a Tech-Bee unit, which adds +1 to Engineer's WIP for the purpose of repairing something, bringing them in line with most other factions. Bad previous experience or no, those units aren't dead weight. They're important support troops, essential when running HIs, Remotes and TAGs. Which, accidentally, are PanO's strong assets. Ignore them if you want, but take notice how your opponents utilize them. It might change your mind.
@Stiopa Those Tech Bees sound good, are they cumulative? And is there an equivalent for hackers or doctors? @gregmurdock oh, thanks for that. I will try to find time to read through that ASAP.
They're AVA 1, and I doubt they'd be cumulative either way. But it still gives our Machinists effective WIP 13, and re-rolls are awesome safety net. No equivalent for Docs and hackers, but re-rolls are still a thing, and two our Docs plus most of our hackers have WIP 13, which is pretty standard. Also, check out hacking programs lists. Many of them have Burst 2-3, which gives an edge to hacker during active turn. Here's an awesome tool for checking what hackers can do: http://www.captainspud.com/n3hacking/
Wip 12 (docs and engs) & 13 (Hacker) are what I was consistently failing on before, I don’t quite see how rolling more fails will help but i’ll try them again. And I’ll see if I can find somewhere here in the ass end of the world that has Tech Bees.
WIP 12 means 60% success rate. After one re-roll it goes up to 84% success rate. This means that after one re-roll there's only 16% chance your Engineer's or Doc's roll will be a failure. Higher burst on hacking programs also means it's easier to succeed. Anyway, good luck.
That doesn’t work it is two 60% chances, the first roll doesn’t affect the second roll at all. So there are two 40% chances to fail. Unless the earlie failures modify the required roll multiple roll have exactly the same chance of success or failure. For example in a different game I rolled a squad attack of 104 d6 and needed 4+ to hit. I got 104 failures. The earlier dice rolls did not affect the later ones at all each die had 50/50 chance nothing more nothing less.
Sure, separately each roll has a 40% failure rate. But when you count them together, you have 60% success chance from the second roll +24% chance (60% of a 40%) from the second one.
