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MO update

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zsimbi, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
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    You're going to buy two spitfires for fireteams?
     
  2. herod1204

    herod1204 Knight of Santiago

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    Just thought, could you do an order sergeants fire team of 3 father knights, and two Santiago's? Not saying you would want that necessarily...

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
     
  3. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Yes? Why not? They don't have to be in the same Fireteam.
     
  4. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    Or, maybe there's just a vocal minority on the forum that continually says the same things to each other until they're absolutely convinced it must be the truth.

    I don't know, it would be interesting to see how often they're selected as an option in ITS, which is information we don't have.

    Regardless it's disingenuous to claim that the members of the forum were ignored, or that their concerns were not addressed. Before this update Teutons did not have any access to Fireteam, while now they do. Haris is another interesting option, one I've heard suggested here a number of times as well. NCO was not asked for, but it's also a completely new option. Further it's a pretty strong option for Vanilla, since it's our only NCO option, and the 10 pt Fusie cheerleader is a very common pick.

    I mean I get it, you're disappointed that whatever you had built up in your head as The One True Path for Teutonic knights wasn't picked. But this is where we are now, let's at least be honest about what we've been given, instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
     
  5. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    Spare me the hyperbole , there were myriads of exploratory threads for options, nobody claimed there was one true path for the teuton. Except perhaps cb which claimed the one true path was the existing one.

    Before this update the teutons had a fire team option, which was removed in the prior update under the claim it wasnt meant to be there and it wasnt taken anyway.

    You see the lack of presence of the teuton in lists that were posted here and lists that were taken to events.

    Almost every pano player I spoke to in the US bemoaned their mediocrety, as the hospitallers got progressively better.

    Literally take a moment to look at what you are praising. To make the teuton look like anything even resembling worthwhile, fire team options were removed from other knights. And even then they are outshined in their new roles by units that played second fiddle to hospitallers.

    So i am not pretending our concerns werent addressed . They were not, nco profile being great in vanilla does not make it good in mo, hell its no different from being vanilla only at that point.
     
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  6. GingerGiant

    GingerGiant Well-Known Member

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    Don't think so. Consider a Teuton Fireteam. You can build a Teuton fireteam out of Magisters and a Santiago because the Magisters count as Teutons. For the Order Sergeant Fireteam, the FKs and Santiagos need an Order Sergeant Fireteam to join. I think you need a minimum of one Order Sergeant, possibly two, to say that you have a Fireteam for the HI to join.
     
  7. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Wildcards can stand in for anyone, so 3 Santiagos is a perfectly legal Order Sergeant Core Fireteam.

    It also could be a perfectly legal Hospitaller Fireteam, Teuton Fireteam, and Magister Knight Fireteam :D

    This was all confirmed when OS and TAK launched.
     
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  8. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Since no one else seems to mind, what the fuck is the reasoning behind Santiagos losing their Paramedic, BSG and basic Combi?
    Why did they get gutted to serve as the patch that keeps MO apparently barely functional?

    Holy fucking shit. Being apologetic can only get you so far.
    This is hands down a terribly executed set of changes void of consistent patterns or meaningful new synergy to look forward to.
    We'll find a way to salvage this steaming pile of garbage, probably around OS Core and some TAG or Haris. But fuck pretending there has been any sort of improvement overall. This just blows.
     
    #108 Teslarod, Nov 29, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
    Skoll likes this.
  9. herod1204

    herod1204 Knight of Santiago

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    The tik has been upgraded on the online version of army to have an ap hmg, so it was a typo as predicted.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
     
  10. hansthehuman

    hansthehuman Order of Saint John

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    I'm sorry, but your bickering of the Santiago, as if they are suddenly a disabled unit that doesn't fit the team because they are missing the most generic, common tools within the entire game is honestly tiring.

    We now have a much needed Jack-of-all-trades, complete with Specialist (Non-specific as it might be) with Spitfire and Grenades, or the long sort after KHD in a sectorial desperately needed something to actually counter one of our biggest weaknesses (EM ammo and Any, literally Any hacking device) in Any and All of our fireteams. and you talk about losing Combi Rifles and Paramedic?

    I cannot see how this is in any way a downgrade, I have literally been waiting for nothing for the past two weeks but to see what kind of AVA these bad boys have, so I can fit as many of them into Every Crack of my future lists.
    These guys are as Elite as they come, and a Godsend for the sectorial needing tools to tackle the meta right now.
     
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  11. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    @Teslarod, no one says you have to love or even like the update, but you're really going overboard with the rants. Yeah, I like most of the changes. I think that MO became much more interesting, flexible, and competetive sectorial. Yeah, some of the changes - or lack of them in Teuton's case - I don't like, but as a whole we've got a massive boost. And you know what? It's perfectly fine for me to like them, and it doesn't mean I'm pretending anything, or trying to salvage a steaming pile of garbage. Honestly, you don't like the new MO, we get it. It's perfectly ok, as is voicing it. But the way you're doing it is simply annoying.
     
    #111 Stiopa, Nov 29, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  12. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    I think we can call this easily a side grade but not a straight up upgrade. A lot of units moved around in roles.

    For example the sepulcher update is alright, but some people are singing its praises like its the second coming.

    Fk options are nice, weird drop of nimbus. Weird fo lt option, but whatever.

    Dropping the old most competitive option and the joan fire team to pigeon hole teutons feels pretty insulting honestly.

    The montesa change is weird but i like the new unit.

    I think our competitive options have actually remained the same, we gained morr diversity but the overall strength of the options is reduced.

    What it does mean is the opponent no longer is guaranteed to know exactly what your list is going to be.
    I dont think the update is a complete shit show. But i do think the teutons are a complete shit show, that many of us basically developed stockholm to try and justify
     
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  13. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    We've definitely got more utility than it was taken away. And it's possible we'll get some more, if the OS change will be confirmed.

    As for FO Lt. - I'm noticing a trend here. Vassily, Patsy, Tai Sheng, F-K...
     
  14. Titus

    Titus Varuna Beach Commando

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    Ok... I've been looking forward for this update so much.

    Now that we have it in Army, I'm really struggling with new lists. Specially because of the lieutenant options.

    Teutons seem disappointing. I'm trying to justify including the NCO profile but I really don't see it.

    Other than that, all changes look promising, and I'm sure it will be fun once we get used to them.
     
  15. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Singh syndrome ?

    "Siesta noaw boys" ?
     
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  16. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    Crusade Fireteam is how Joan link worked before HSN3. Not sure why the return to it, but whatever. Maybe too many Wildcards around.
    The sectorial is now no longer as much monobuild as it was, which is a huge improvement in itself.
    Native Duo on FK was a long time coming, as was linking with OS. I'm not even sure if Hospitallers needed to be nerfed like that with all those new options for a working Core. It's not like they didn't get Haris in the deal either.
    Teutons are still kinda sucky, but now you can get this as a Haris:
    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 39)
    ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)

    4 SWC | 90 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    For some reason I find that amusing.

    In fact if we do this:
    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 39)
    ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 49)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)
    ORDER SERGEANT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21)
    ORDER SERGEANT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21)
    ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    7 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The Teutons have 4 Orders for themselves to wreck face with a Spitfire, with OS being good on defensive. Joan and Sepulchre Hack and Slash their way towards objectives. Double Sniper OS team may not be anything special, but MO was never known for their long range presence, so it may work. And the second group is standard Doctor/Engi backup.

    My only regret is that I couldn't shove in a Father-Knight or Sepulchre into this.
     
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  17. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Current intepretation or rules actually allows enemy hacker to target anyone who activated with Teuton (so the whole link if ther are witihn enemy hackers ZoC) not only Teuton.

    And eating (as Teuton) unopossed Isolation is not fun.
     
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  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    It's quite opposite: little but LI is possible now with MO.
     
  19. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Wildcards - namely Santiagos - can join Crusade fireteam.
     
  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Yes, but the Crusade Fireteam nail to the coffin is (imho) fact that it cannot be reformed once one hospitaller/santiago bites the dust.
     
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