I'm sorry but if someone still cannot see what's wrong with Teutons in 2019 then he must be more blind tham a Themis....
They went from "legitimately awful" to "okay, but other options are better". They were bumped to Bolts-tier when previously they were pre-update Securitate-tier. Or is the worst one "Caliban-tier"?
One may find an interest in the Haris / Specialist profile. And the basic spitfire is ok if you don't have those 6 pts to take a Santiago...
It's been a while since they could link and it's the first time they can link with Magisters. They also got the Haris people suggested as a hotfix for them. Try to keep up.
Military Orders──────────────────────────────────────────────────6 ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 43) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 43) 4 SWC | 184 PointsOpen in Infinity Army I mean what is functionally better about the haris in this situation? Or we could press into the further specializations of the haris profiles: Hopitalliers offer several different ways to get hackers and spitfires onto the table either on budget or as much as you please. Military Orders──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1 3 ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 43) GROUP 2 3 KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 31) GROUP 3 3 KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) GROUP 4 3 KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 31) DE FERSEN Spitfire / Pistol, Templar CCW (AP + Shock). (2 | 56) 9.5 SWC | 434 PointsOpen in Infinity Army Teutons on the other hand have a handful of options which save a minimal amount of points. The main highlight of them is the exp CCW but doing so in the haris comes at a cost or either a hacker or spitfire Military Orders──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1 2 TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) TEUTONIC KNIGHT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 36) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 39) GROUP 2 3 TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 39) GROUP 3 3 ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 39) GROUP 4 4 KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 43) 9.5 SWC | 429 PointsOpen in Infinity Army The key loss is stealth and the key benefit is NCO. The prices aren't so great a difference once you factor in Lt costs to use NCO if the Lt is outside of the link and depending on how you build the link, you may have to. Building for NCO also costs range compared to hopitalliers and kit compared to Santiago with the loss of EM and template weapons. Frankly I dont see much point in a magister in the link so I didnt bother in my examples. He brings a light shotgun at a reasonable price and another panzerfaust but then you're comparing to the boarding shotgun in the Hospitaliers and it's a trade that gives you blanket stealth and better damage and better defense and better accuracy and versatile ammo types. The Hospitalier haris a much more well rounded fireteam at a small price difference.
So this is jumping back a few pages, but I just ran a variant of this for Biotechvore against ISS: Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 2 KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) Spitfire / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 56) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) TEUTONIC KNIGHT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 36) TEUTONIC KNIGHT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 36) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I have a bit of a hardon for KoTHS with spitfire, so shoved that in, but I liked the basic premise, i just shifted the points so that the hacker was in something that would advance upfield. Of course, any FO/spotlight classifieds I couldn't deal with, and I had nothing to deal with the biometric visor/sensor one, but I figured it left me in a good place. The other variant of this I tried, had de Fersen has the Lieutenant outside of the link, with the CoC as backup,the idea being that he could run around and use his lieutenant order to complete classifieds until he died. I enjoyed being able to switch the missile launcher in and out, but it wasn't the easiest thing given how demanding of your command tokens biotechvore is. Quite honestly, the Teutons could have been swapped for Magisters for no functional difference in this specific game, but he was running a Wu Ming link with a smattering of chaff, so EXP CCW wasn't horribly relevant. I won, and pretty handily, but I think turning the Teutons into Magisters, allowing the addition of Dart or a TOFO or a Montesa or something like that instead of the Fugazi, would have been better. I never felt like they controlled the midfield, but maybe it was the board/I need to up my game on that side of things. The challenge with Teutons remains: Why would I include them when there is better stuff out there? I could have put one in the link, and then included a Pathfinder, but why would I want to lose the Knight's stealth for a single Teuton? I Think the idea of a 6 man link is probably the most likely scenario to include a Teuton, but it faces very stiff competition. Thoroughly enjoyable list though @daboarder , I would definitely run a variant of it again.
He was refering to a situation where you have a nearby "extra" member to fill in gap after first guy gets killed.
I am searching for ways to do this, but outside of vanilla, I see no chance, because you will starve in orders and they are not good enough equipped to be the annoying bomb they should be. To get the order-efficiency, I tried an 5 man core-link with a teuton-spitfire, which was too much for that task and too bulky. Now I reduced this core-link to three members, 2 magisters and the teuton spitfire, which is performing very good. It is resilient and has enough punch and durability in the midfield. And when the spitfire dies, the magisters are free and can go on rampage.
I have run three, with Joan. That can be a real shock for opponents who aren't used to that kind of aggression from PanOceania. You still have the points to run some solid support options (I like a Hospitaller Haris for ranged shooting).
Something like this? Coordinate Magisters ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 3 JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) ORDER SERGEANT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19) KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army The Order Sergeant was either a Paramedic to afford all DA CCW's on the Magisters, or Tom Sr. gets downgraded to Tofoos to upgrade the KotHS to a Spitfire. Or, Order Sergeant gets a Spitfire.
Yeah, that's a solid LI version of the concept. I think what I actually ran was: Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 8 2 3 JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) GROUP 2 4 PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) 4 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Which was fun, but is super terrain dependent (the Magisters certainly did their job 'though). I think, if I was running a LI version (or just playing with mine more) I'd try to get a HRL Sergeant into the Haris myself.
Coordinating Magisters with Joan certainly sounds like what people who first see Military Orders and don't know how the game plays imagines them to act. And it does sound like a curveball to experienced players.
I like to run them from time to time in Vanilla that way. It's still a cheap HI running down field for "free", with a good chance of getting into contact with the enemy, and making a mess of things.
it's certainly relatively solid order efficiency, I'd probably drag them linked to the middle of the board turn 1 and let them go wild turn 2 and 3.
