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MO update

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zsimbi, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Seraphin

    Seraphin Well-Known Member

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    Actual phrase and used wording is pretty much open for interpretation. What author meant behind it is different thing.
     
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  2. Titus

    Titus Varuna Beach Commando

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    I see this thread is going nowhere near the topic of MO new troops and possible tactics and it's just going in circles about things that are of little interest IMO. So I'll just stop trying for the moment.
     
  3. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps because there are few viable tactics in the new MO, as has been established? :D
     
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  4. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Ok back on topic.

    MO could have (quite unique) train of being able to "reform/reinforce/reforge" their link back to full strength due to how different links you can create (with OS jumping etc.). Yet the main problem of this idea is that the LI (single combat group syndrome) actually heavily discourage you from spending any orders on "pulling guys up" to a proximity of a link just to reform it back to 5 people. You don't have spare orders to just spend on single Order Sergeant or someone similar (lone wildcart Santiago). It's all again "it's not worh the orders to try to heal that guy".

    The only way it works is "6 man link team" when considered as a static defensive link with 100% assurance that the poor ARO guy will die.

    It could be cool if MO could advance the link forward, take few hits and then be able to reform link back to full 5 people, unfortunately MO has too little orders to actually do that.

    (though there is one bit crazy list where you can actually reform 5 man Santiago/Magister link with Hospitallers Haris to full Crusade fireteam)
     
    TaHu, oldGregg, Titus and 1 other person like this.
  5. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    *desire to know more intensifies*
     
  6. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    I've already posted that list.

    Here try to spot the trick:

    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]3
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 49)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 43)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)
    ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
    ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    (obvious small upgrades left to be done are obvious)

    Also this list is not exactly "great", skilled opponent will easily know how to exploit it's weaknesses yet it is best of what I can think atm (alongside typical lists with KotHS and old variations of "Santiagos must sufficient for old Hospitallers" type of lists)
     
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  7. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Current MO has 3 Core problems it needs to solve.

    1.Order Economy.
    Even IA can pull off 18 Orders with NCO+LT2 on top of Tac Sense with a bunch of HI.
    2. What the heck to do about your Lt?
    This might as well be unsolvable beyond bring Joan/generic obvious HI Lt and deal with it.
    3. The PanO Paradox (also known as "how to leave your DZ using nothing but guns 101").
    Since we didn't get Eclipse and Hospitaler HMGs with Magisters is no longer an option, someone else needs to do that.

    If you can solve those three issues with a single list you're good to go. Thing is - I tried over and over, but the damn thing refuses to work and instantly falls apart as a concept when I put it next to an Aleph, Varuna or Tohaa list.
     
    Elessar, theradrussian, Titus and 4 others like this.
  8. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well other factions do not exactly have those problems (all of them) and can immidietly jump to "how to kill enemy and score objectives" problems, which are then followed by "how to make our list redundant and resiliant to enemy hits".
     
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  9. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    It seems that MO remains a hardcore sectorial and effectively a 'hard mode' army.
    We need to accept and move on.
     
  10. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    One way to get extra order with the magister / teuton / santiago link is to cancel your fireteam before the beginning of your turn. You will get some impetuous from magister and from frenzy guys if they killed someone while outside of the team. You may use this momentum to use your lieutenant order btw.

    And poor ARO guys doesn't necessarily have to die. If he is behind a barricade or a crate he may get prone after getting one wound or two. I like to use magister this way. With panzerfaust and 17 dodge it usually takes at least two order to get them.
     
  11. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well Magisters do have a chance indeed, I was more talking about poor OS HRL dying horrible death ;P

    (and last time I've left my Magister on ARO he ate double crit from some SP guy )
     
  12. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    If they end uncounscious and behind a barricade you can heal them back. Cost and order (an potential command tokens) but having this HI back is usually worth it.
     
  13. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    For having about 5-6 games with the new MO now, I would say that the Seraph is a good way to give you the means to go out of your DZ. I have played against OSS and the Seraph succeeded to put down both Dakini Sniper and HMG upgraded by an Apsara. Then, I let my Santiago Lt do the scenario under the trusty overwatch of a FK ML in a core with Koni, two OS and BF.
    But, really, the BF becomes more and more an autoinclude for me. Too much flexibility for only 28 pts.
    The only sectorial I struggle against is Druze. My usual opponent tend to make a screen of drones to protect the link with Dromoz and the E/M LGL. I need to find out how to go through this. A OS FT may be the solution.
     
  14. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
    Warcor

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    Would like to have a look at your list.
     
    herod1204 likes this.
  15. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Sure, I'm still testing it to see if it can work for the French Satellite.

    Satellite test 1b
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10
    BROTHER KONSTANTINOS Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, CCW. (0 | 29)
    BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    FATHER-KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 49)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43)
    ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    SERAPH HMG, 2 Nanopulsers / EXP CCW. (2 | 79)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    4.5 SWC | 299 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    As we have both Highly classified and Deadly Dance, I designed it to be able to handle both if I'm playing on a long range focused table (I know there will be some where a ML can do a lot of things). The second list is more designed to be played where Spitfire and shotgun can shine.
     
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  16. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Unless you want a rude visit from Tigers or Liu Xing...


    But at least it's moved from 'unable to complete a lot of missions' Hard Mode to 'can complete most missions, but you need to be creative to do it' Hard Mode.
     
    herod1204 likes this.
  17. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    It's easy to play a good list badly:
    - deploy your troops in a way that invites a drop troop or infiltrator to shotgun them
    - activate units in the wrong order (like using a short ranged troop first before taking care of the enemy sniper with your own sniper)
    - run your expensive HI/TAG into hacking areas or in front of Panzerfaust/linked MLs
    - place your Camo marker behind a troop without Camo so that a shotgun/DTW enemy can take them both out without Discovering the Camo marker
    - leave huge gaps on the table that allow bypassing your strong ARO pieces

    Etc etc.
    I've definitely done most, if not all of them.

    "It's not your list; it's you" can be and often is misinterpreted as "you can win with whatever you bring", but the way @Section9 is phrasing it, i.e. "it doesn't matter if your list is strong if your head isn't" is more correct.
     
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  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    It already could do that.

    It was just employing a Hosp+Mag link all the way (with slight alterations to support pieces).
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  19. Vijel

    Vijel Member

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    There is not much new I can bring to the discussion however I realized there is not much talk (and lists) about the classic Joan Doomlink since the update.
    Maybe this is because there was never much to talk about the Doomlink for what a straightforward list it is. Or maybe it is because the classic Doomlink is indeed dead since the new restrictions to the Crusader Fireteam. Or maybe everybody wanted to test the newer things first.
    Anyway I ‘am a huge fan of the Doomlink idea. I love the Space Knights idea, I love Joan as a concept, I love her (Limited Edition) miniature and I love the Hospitallers. Therefore, the Joan Doomlink will always be the definitive way to play MO for me.
    For this reason, I tinkered a bit with army and tried to come up with a few generic lists which I wanted to toss in here for all to discuss/comment.

    Disclaimer: I ‘am an Infinity nooby therefore take these with a grain of salt. :)

    The core for all my lists is the same:
    Joan DA + Multirifle Doctor + HMG + Boarding Shotgun + Santiago KHD
    Warcor and Tech-Bee are a given.
    For me KotHS is necessary as a backup if you want to use Joan in the offensive. Allowedly he is pretty expensive for a backup plan, but he is also a formidable gunfighter and can take over if the Doomlink falls apart.
    With the rest of the points I tried to support the Link as much as possible.

    Doomlink + REM

    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────


    [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2

    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50)

    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)

    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 31)

    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 39)

    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)

    KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52)

    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    BULLETEER Heavy Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)

    MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)


    2.5 SWC | 299 Points


    Open in Infinity Army

    First, I thought of the Mulebot EVO Hacker to help with the Crusade Fireteam restrictions. I got the Bulleteer so the Mulebot can support something when the Link doesn’t need it. Unfortunately, the points didn’t allow for the Spitfire variant, so I settled with the Heavy Shotgun. The Bulleteer could flank with its speed, hunt enemy cheerleaders and/or function as shortrange ARO piece to protect the core link. Also, it has a Repeater to extend not only the EVOs hacking area but also the Santiagos.
    The downside with this list, it is very short on SWC and does probably lack long range firepower and therefore ways to get out of the DZ.
    Maybe the EVO is a bit over the top in terms of support. With the Santiago it is a bit redundant and the points could be spent on fighting pieces.

    Doomlink + Sup

    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────


    [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2

    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50)

    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)

    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 31)

    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 39)

    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)

    KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52)

    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    SPEC. SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher + AUXBOT_1 / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19)

    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)

    BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)


    4.5 SWC | 299 Points


    Open in Infinity Army

    Second list trades the EVO Mulebot for a Spec Sergeant with Heavy Rocket Launcher and Auxbot and Upgrades the Bulleteer to a Spitfire. The Bulleteer can act in the same role as before but is a bit more flexible. The Spec Sergeant provides ARO coverage for long and short range bands.

    Doomlink + TOMSROS

    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────


    [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2

    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 49)

    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39)

    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 31)

    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35)

    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)

    KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52)

    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33)

    ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)


    5 SWC | 300 Points


    Open in Infinity Army

    As many here deem the TOMSROS a necessity I tried to include one in my last list. Bringing the TOMSROS with my original core leaves 10 points to spend. One could get a Mulebot Minesweeper or a Fugazi for that, but I thought they are not that useful in this list because I’ am missing synergy pieces like the Pathfinder. Therefore, I downgraded the Doomlink to a doctor with Combi and Joan to a AP CCW to fit in an Order Sergeant with Heavy Rocket Launcher. I don’t like the downgrade that much but an additional HRL seems like a fair consolation prize.

    The last list is presumably best equipped for leaving the DZ and handling dangerous enemy ARO pieces but personally I probably like the second list the most. It offers good support for the Doomlink and simultaneously retains a kind of balance and alternative attack pieces if the linkteam takes a hit.

    I would like to hear your thoughts on the lists or see different approaches and ideas.

    On a different note does somebody here use a proxy for the Tech-Bee? I really don’t like the idea of a half-naked actual cheerleader on the battlefield and would like to substitute her with a model more suited for combat.
    Also, what miniature do you use for the TOMSROS? I thought of the Croc Man MSR after a head swap with an Order Sergeant. The armor seems similar enough. Anyone done this?
     
  20. Titus

    Titus Varuna Beach Commando

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    I've been thinking about using an Hexa sniper I already have. I think with the coat painted in red in the bottom part (that's the colour I used in the OS cloths) and attaching the tipical PanO antennas to the helmet, she will look pretty similar to an OS.