It's a trade-off. Your team loses stealth meaning you need to move more carefully, and he is quite expensive for a one wound model that forms a weak point in the link. On the flip side, he does have mimetism, but more importantly gives them some versatility. He saved my bacon in a recent match against jsa, as I was able to kill two ryuken who would otherwise have been incredibly problematic . I prefer the blackfriar due to the mines and multi rifle, but sometimes points mean he is jsut a better fit. Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
That doesn't sound right, since Haris is a skill often on a single model. In this case if the Teuton with Haris profile is chosen as part of the Haris during formation, why wouldn't you be able to add Magisters to that Fireteam?
Magisters count as Teutons for Fireteam comp and Teutons have Haris. So if you fill a Magister in as a Teuton in a "Teuton Fireteam" he can Haris.
Magisters can count as Teutons which do have Haris. Granzers can count as Securitate which don't have Haris.
Yes, so you'd need one Teuton Haris and two Magisters, like this: Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 2 TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) 2.5 SWC | 91 Points Open in Infinity Army
An Order Sergeant can join a Fireteam of Teutons or Hospitallers, it doesn't say "Core". So I assume this is a legal team? Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 1 TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) ORDER SERGEANT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21) 2 SWC | 79 Points Open in Infinity Army I am trying to figure out the least costly 300pts list based on starter, with the least amount of unused models purchased. It looks like OS Core + Teuton Haris is the way to go. Buying a box of Santiagos only to use one seems beginner-unfriendly. Also many people start with buying a starter and asking questions later, since it has "Starter" on the box.
What’s funny is that MO starter was made under old rules but actualy suits better to the new one :) You add a frair and father knight to that, and you get decent haris and nice core link. About the santiago , I wonder if they are planing to make KHD model any time soon, as it is one of the most frequently used model in MO.
That is also consistent with the fact these HI are supposed to be the meat and pottatos of MO lists. It also proove that CB can make exception to their supposed "point matrice" (which is why I don't get over the NWI HI in Yu Jing. Just give them two wound and make them cheap ... Doesn't bother me in a HI oriented army that HI get a discount because they are soooo expected)
Or they could lower cost of OS or Crusader or BF. All of which would make perfect sense. But no, MO should not get cheapish orders.
It does me. If you're going to do that for the HI sectorial then they should add an SWC cost or something outside of that sectorial.
Especialy that they are highly resistant to main HI threat - hacking. Giving them KHD + TinBot B right of the bat, is too much imo. All that in an era when AHD is already at the brink of extinction. We struggled for years without KHD or tinbots. Pure HI army that is protected by KHD with -12 to WiP in FtF hacking is insane (redrum + fairy dust+tinbot).
It's a Tinbot A. So that would be -9 if you stack everything. And I don't think it's too much anyway. MO got some good upgrades but it paid them at a high price, being very restrictive with the Lt options. So if you have a full link of HI that's 50-70% of your list. Usually you have to include your Lt in the link, because there are no cheap options for it. So it is very risky and you have not many points left to invest in support and protection for your fireteam, much less for tools to fulfill objectives or deal with enemy tricks (msv, etc). So if you decide that that's too risky and want to secure your Lt, you need to invest extra 35-50 points in a Lt out of your link, or in a Sepulchre Knight CoC. And with that we are probably talking that you used more than 75% of your points in your HI fireteam and your Lt or CoC. So yes, I don't think it is too horrible that MO got at least some protection against hackers. Anyway, that's only one weakness for your fireteam. It will still be very vulnerable to the most simple and effective old tools against firteams and HIs like all kind of templates, specially those wielded by cheap warbands that are really happy to die if they are able to lay a fire or E/M template that can ruin several HI in one hit if lucky. Or speculative E/M grenades. Or warbands that will force you into CC using smoke, and will be comfortable just letting you waste orders to try and kill them in your turn while their friends get objectives. Even if we go back to hacking, yes, the Santiago KHD is a great addition. But if you want to use fairy dust to give that extra protection, we are talking about a minimum of 21 points 0.5 SWC for a normal hacker, and using an order every turn. It doesn't come for free, and it might be an useless investment against many opponents who won't use any hackers. And that still doesn't make them invulnerable to hacking. Just set up some repeaters, and see the Santiago KHD trying to handle more than 1 hacker at the same time. MO got more difficult to play in my opinion, and the tools that they have are much needed to be competitive. Nothing they have is too much. An all Knights fireteam core can steamroll the enemy easily if they are unopposed. But if you use any strategy to shut down that Fireteam or simply slow it down enough, you have won the game. Unlike many other sectorials/lists where they will have many other powerful tools to keep going. It's all or nothing.
I believe the tinbot b reference was to the new IA HI fireteams, which are all but invulnerable to hacking. Overall the IA deployment alongside our rework makes me very jealous of IA and their wealth of limited insertion orders, and their even more stellar hacking defense. (And dont get me wrong killer hacker santiago is literally godsend to me ) It also feels like creativity on the HI was sucked up by IA with the last bit going to the montesa, with there being literally no ideas left for the teuton which was left as is, again for the 4th year in a row.
I totally agree , thatswhy I was talking about IA ;) Now take all you have said ,add camoed LT lvl2 outside the link, great CoC platform that synergise magnificent with the HI link , not against it (KOTS compete for limited order pool with the link in MO) , TA and NCO for even more orders and tinbot B on top of that. So in this situation hacking should be natural counter , or at least viable option . But it is not. I dont buy the argument that linked KHD protects just the link. First of all it is the link exacely, that you want to protect the most , secondly they got repeters available and enemies will act cautiously ,in general ,with their ADH. Imm or isolation is not great option, knowing that your overconfident ADH will be dead in IA active turn. I already know what santiago is capable of , so additional -3 to enemy WiP is just morderous. In general IA is similar to old MO imo , with all its problems, but whats make them different is that 13-14 order pool from a single group and KHD with tinbot B. That might be enough to succede where we have failed, even without TO FO . We shall see . That being said, new MO tools make them less straight forward and expectable which is good on the long run . We just have to leave old habbits and accept we are no longer HI faction, which is especialy bitter for me. I mean in comparison to old MO , new mixed link standards and IA introduction.
Just double checking here: I'm pretty sure this is not at all how "counts as" works. I think it is actually what section9 says below. Sorry if this has already been clarified.
So for everybody else in this thread, there's a new drinking game. Take a drink for every post that Skoll makes that does NOT bash the Teutons or mention them in some manner.
