Yeah.. no.. linkable Kamau that’s wildcard on a line trooper link that’s widely regarded as one of THE best line trooper links in the entire game, as well as absurd math against anyone in ARO, simply blows the Vet Kazak out of the water.
I do not have a problem with idea that MO should have a Lt that is in the center of the fight. We got tools for that and it goes well with the lore. But I have a problem with how much commitment that brings in roster design. If you decide on santiago or hospitaler its almost 100% sure that he will end up in a core link or at least haris. If you take Joan , who can do fine on her own , you will still add some core link , becouse thats the reason to play sectorials. Whatever you will chose, thats about 50% of points allowance spent on 5-6 orders. I do not get the FK FO LT idea at all. I know 45pts model is cappable of doing something after all, just why bother, when you got a lot of other tools elsewhere to get it better/faster/cheeper. Now , what about our nice TAGs. We just got main one improved and got second as a bonus. Adding LT seraphs would be good thematically, and will add variety to the rosters . Currently having agressive HI link and a tag in 10 orders list is not optimal solition. Not to mention it is also required to push some buttons in this game „from time to time”.
Shoot the models with two orders? They're still going to just as easy to kill as before. Tools to get into close combat: Assault on the FK, Teuton Knights Holo L2 on the KotHS Frenzy to run towards the nearest enemy on Santiago, Hospitaller, Joan, Teutons Highly Impetus on Magister Knights Motorcycle with 8-4 move on the Montesa Stealth on Santiago, Hospitaller, Joan, KotHS, Magister Super Jump on Seraphs Climbing Plus on Tikbalangs So, none of those allow you to walk through smoke and stick a knife in somebody while not allowing them to shoot, but since most of the models have CC of 20+, and CCWs on PH13/14, you're at pretty good odds. Take the Hospitaller, and you'll have to take 2 less OS, but OS spam is still a thing. Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Lieutenant MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35) SPEC. SERGEANT (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GROUP 2 8 BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) 5.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army Because it's guaranteed to only do 1 wound, and the mine might be cause a lot of other problems. If the most efficient solution is a one order face tank I'll do it in a heart beat. Oops, here how about this? Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 1 KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) BROTHER KONSTANTINOS Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, CCW. (0 | 29) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) Spitfire / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 56) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Lieutenant MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
Ok, but with very limited order poll and main advantage in form of high BS, resilient platform would you still rely on racing you lonely Lt into cc as a battle plan? I am not saying it cant happen in some hypotetical situation, but would you build your list around it?
Do you? I mean the Hospitaller is cheaper sure, but he's also not a specialist and cannot be put into a OS link. The Teuton is "cheaper" in pure points, but costs an SWC, in an SWC hungry faction. The Knight of Santiago is 2 pts cheaper, but still costs 1 SWC. Better? Joan might be "better" as a pure beat stick or LT, but she has no LT option. De Fersen is interesting, but he's 9 points more expensive, and the Assault Hacking Device is as much limitation as it is benefit. The Knight of Santiago is better in a lot of ways, but a generic Specialist is not useful for any of the classifieds. And keep in mind the tight nature of MO lists makes it difficult to add specialists to complete classifieds. I have no idea what "Faster" means in this situation, since they all move 8" total. Joan might be faster in her mobility armor, but she doesn't have assault.
I ment ,that its better to spent those points elsewere to get separate tools for the right job than FK FO LT that technically could do them all , but in reality wont be able to perform everything . But you still pay for the possibility every time . Still, if I have to make a single choice I would pick santiagos LT. He got less options but more reliable.
I'm not sure, who am I playing, and what are their advantages? What's the mission? Going into CC against CC monsters like the Oniwaban is a mistake, but it's not dreadful against a lot of other stuff that would like to stay at range. It removes the BS penalty from Camo and ODD, and potentially inflicts range band penalties to any shots on the way in. Also it reduces the utility of "eraser" models like the Oniwaban, Fiday, or Speculo Killer. No longer can they assume they can just deploy, and kill an expensive piece in a single order.
I'm just a Yu-jing player passing by, but I'd like to leave here what i wrote about the pheasant red-fury in the Yu-Jing subforum, because the Fk/Santiago Lt profiles seriously remind me of him and just how great he can be: They're the guys who'll save your guts if all your other capable specialist got killed and you need to score 1 or 2 objectives on your last turn with a very limited amount of orders. Unlike the pheasant however they're tanky enough to withstand a lot of punishment, which is very usefull when you simply don't have orders to spend on fancy stuff like dodging mines or shooting back. They're also much better gunfighter, and unless you got stomped in the mud a santiago spitfire should massacre anything left on the board at the end of the game. In short, they're your lieutenant, but also your insurance policy. Kisses from the superior Hyperpower
I think having separate tools for the job is going to be a luxury that's hard to come by in a sectorial with lots of expensive models. I often struggle to put in a doctor, or paramedic, let alone an Engineer or a FO. The pathfinder is probably the best bet here, and also adds Sensor which is nice. The TOFOOS is much better, but expensive, so I wouldn't expect him to fit into every list. Santiago is really nice, but the decrease in SWC for the profile is very odd, IMHO. I'd almost expect to find it's a typo.
I'm not convinced that Core+Haris (or HI Core+TAG) is a valid build for anything but fun. It's distinctly sub-optimal for highly competitive games. With lots of HI running around, your entire army ends up having 2 big chunks, and maybe a couple loners. It means that you can only put your major forces in 2 places at once. And that's really limiting. That certainly is my concern. Those TacWare models are obvious (and the LT2 is going to be hard to kill), so they're easily shot up. Plus, they're almost guaranteed to be ARM3/BTS3 PH12. If I'm facing IA, my highest-priority targets are definitely the NCO and TacWare models (since the LT2 is going to be hiding under a camo marker). Especially if I can break the link team at the same time. Remember, TacWare requires the model to be the Team Leader to be able to use the TacWare order for the team. Close Combat should never be your go-to option. But it certainly can be a better choice than trying to shoot a linked Kamau (or whatever). And that's why I'm irked about the Zhencha (IA's camo+infiltrator) not being shock-immune, and therefore unable to face-tank a mine covering the objective. Dude, not even JSA relies on stuffing the LT into CC as the primary battle plan. It's usually the backup choice for when shooting something has low odds of success.
Bloody hell, Father Knight "fire teams" are brutal. I just ran the below, and it was crazily good. Engineering deck 3 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 FATHER-KNIGHT Lieutenant Spitfire / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 50) FATHER-KNIGHT Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 50) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) FATHER-KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 49) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) Spitfire / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 56) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I mean, ok. I got lucky rolling double crit (twenties!) with my FK Missile Launcher turn 1, and wiping his Hsien (Lieutenant) off the board, but bloody hell that team feels tanky. Compared to what @Stiopa suggested as an aggressive one, I swapped the FO for a Missile Launcher, and you could probably drop the machinist and drop the AHD down to a boarding shotgun to somehow cram a blackfriar into the link (and add a tech bee), but that list would be a bit too tight for my tastes probably. Maybe I have just never run that flexible a link before (or a linked ML on BS 14!), but holy moly it was good.
the problem with all this list is that the 90% of them are LI. And playing 10 orders lists vs +14 lists is a bad idea
Nope? I mean, I play nearly always against 14+ order lists and don't lose that much against them. In fact, I tend to lose more while playing 14+ orders lists than with 10 orders ones and LI lists tend to be hard nuts to crack. LI lists aren't forgiving, I give you that, but that force you to play better and to become better about your choices. 14+ orders lists are powerful when they achieve to force LI lists to struggle on their killing spree by buying time while they achieve things that require a lot of orders to be done. Know your problems and the solutions and use it at full potential. FO FK is good in LI lists because he can do a lot of things alone (in defence, there is the flash pulse too, remember). In 14+ orders lists, he is really less interesting as you can dedicate fragile troops to grab objectives while you put most of your points on killing machines and order sponges.
Best line troop doesn’t say much. Vet Kazak has the same shooting ability as the kamau, but has AP HMG on top of it, along with an extra wound and veteran. I don’t know what absurd math you are talking about, or blowing stuff out of water.
@ijw Not that it changes much but could we get confirmation that MO doesn't get their "flavor" of Machinist ?:) (inb4 "dude, but Machinist in MO gets cool thematic name" ;P )
Well: HMG -> AP HMG = 3pts NWI + Shock Imm ~= 8 pts (at least) SS2 ~= I dont remember but think it was around 3-5 pts +3 ARM - 6 BTS ~= +1/2 pts +1 PH + WIP + 2CC ~= 3 pts
Kamau also has shock immunity. SS2, it's just extra cost usually when linked. +2 cc also extra cost, it's not like it's gonna help you against anyone who wats to entercc with you. So when linked, vet kazak has extra fat that he doesn't benefit really from. Same way as those knights for example have reduces cost because of impeteous, but don't really care for it when linked. Not saying that he is bad though.
Aaaand this is why you and the rest of the PanO crybabies are a meme. Abject denial of reality. 1. Having the best line troop says a lot, it's literally one of the biggest drawing power to PanO sectorials. 2. He actually don't, only the comparison with the HMG. 3. Kamau MSR is quite frankly one of the most disgusting ARO (as well as active) pieces ever conceived in this game, especially considering the pricetag. Deny math all you want. Please, do go on and undersell how insane both the Fusilier link is and how this gets cranked up to 12, with the Kamau Wildcard. It's amusing to me. Especially since the Vet Kazak link literally isn't what makes TAK strong in any way, shape or form. Trivially spamming 31 camo tokens on top of T2 ammo on everything, was the mistake made by CB. You're literally pointing to the only non-issue thing in the entire sectorial, save for perhaps their new bikes. 2/10
Excuse me but noone ever denied power of Kamaus and Fusiliers. Also this is particular thread about MO, and last time I've checked neither Fusiliers (anymore) nor Kamaus were available to them. Also MO pays premium on their line infantry for magic +2 CC ^^. Also Vets kazaks are good (excellent) when you start comparing them to the HI not LI ;P (like compering FK Spitfire to Vet Kazak AP HMG ;P)
