Ohh... so i've misread stealth rules, my bad. But...after some consideration, I still can't say that wording for stealth rule is clear. "Does not grant ARO" is not equal to "Do not generate ARO". Semantically it also means "forbids" ARO. So I do agree with ToadChild and Hecaton though, it is not that clear.
Does not grant an ARO is not semantically the same as forbids targeting by an ARO, but I can rewrite my sentence if it's easier: Stealth prevents AROs from being granted, nothing prevents a Trooper which has been granted an ARO from targeting any active model (except the requirements of the declared skill). I do think it needs an FAQ as well because the answer (whichever way) is non-obvious and it's not clear that the general (but admittedly not universal) consensus interpretation is the intended one. And that's leaving aside @Hecaton's point that the rules surrounding AROs are awkward when dealing with multiple active models.
I can agree that the rules are not so clear as the should be, but still I'am convinced that the poor fusilier can't slap in the face to the daturacy. If we read carefull... http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Order_Expenditure_Sequence Order Expenditure Sequence Each time the Active Player decides to use an Order (of whatever type) to activate a trooper, follow these steps: Activation: The Active Player declares which trooper will activate. Order expenditure: The Active Player removes from the table, or otherwise marks as spent, the Order Marker he uses to activate the trooper. Declaration of the First Skill: The Active Player declares the first Short Skill of the Order, or the Entire Order he wants to use. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and places the trooper at the final point of its movement. Declaration of AROs: The Reactive Player checks which of her troopers can react against the activated trooper, and declares AROs for each of them. If a trooper can declare an ARO but fails to do so, the chance is lost. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and specifies where the trooper would be at the end of its movement. Declaration of the Second Skill: The Active Player declares the second Short Skill of the Order, if applicable. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and places the trooper at the final point of its movement. Declaration of AROs: The Reactive Player can check whether new AROs are available, and declare those. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and specifies where the trooper would be at the end of its movement. Resolution: Players take measurements, determine MODs, and make Rolls. Effects: Players apply all effects of successful Orders or AROs, and make ARM/BTS Rolls. Conclusion: If necessary, players make Guts Rolls and apply their effects. IMPORTANT! All details and choices related to the execution of a Short Skill, Short Movement Skill, or Entire Order Skill must be specified when it is declared. For instance, if you declare a movement, specify the entire route; if you declare a BS Attack, specify which Weapon will be used, who the targets are, how the Burst is divided, etc. A Skill declaration is not valid if the Requirements for their execution are not met. For example, a CC Attack cannot be performed against a figure that is not in base to base contact with the attacker. If the Player declares a Skill and, when he applies its Effects, he realizes the Requirements are not met, then the Skill is considered null. However, the trooper who declared it still generates ARO, as if he has declared an Idle, and loses the ammunition or equipment used, if he declared the use of a Disposable weapon or piece of Equipment. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Stealth STEALTH AUTOMATIC SKILL CC Special Skill, Optional. REQUIREMENTS The user of this Special Skill must be in his Active Turn. EFFECTS Allows the user to make Cautious Movements inside the Zone of Control of an enemy. A trooper with Stealth that declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies but outside their LoF does not grant AROs to those enemies, even if he reaches base contact with them. However, if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO. If the Movement of the trooper with Stealth ends in base to base contact with an enemy and declares any non-Movement Short Skill, then the enemy can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, Reset, or those Skills that can be used in Engaged state. ... the fusilier have ARO because the Raktorak grants one to him, but not the Daturazi. So, can be selected as a target. I think is the same as the Auxilia's example with is auxbot. The unit "man+bot" grants one single ARO to the enemy. So, if we take the interpretation I can choose the daturazi because I have ARO against the entire group Datu+Rakto. If the fusiler wish to shoot the auxilia he could declare it, because the bot grants him an ARO. If later, in the second order the Auxilia (Man) shows her face to the fusilier, he could shoot him in the face... And really he can`t do it this. For me is the same situation here in the case of combined troops with and without stealth. I resolve always this situations in this way. Ok. We have many troops activated with one order. Ok. What can I do against every one if they were activated separately? Can I shoot both? Yes. Can I do CC? Yes. ¿Against who? Can I do...? Yes Can I do...? No. So I choose the best option to me or the less bad.
"the fusilier have ARO because the Raktorak grants one to him, but not the Daturazi. So, can be selected as a target. " There isn't the relationship between these two things that you're implying. The Fusi gets an ARO because the Raktoak grants one to him. The active Trooper can be targeted by that ARO. Does the Fusilier have an ARO? Yes Is the Daturazi active? Yes Is the Daturazi in B2B? Yes All the requirements of a CC Attack vs the Daturazi have been met at the time of declaration.
There is a conceptual difference that isn't covered in the rules. Some people think that when an ARO is generated it is tied to the model that generates it. Some people think that all that matters is that the reactive model received an ARO trigger, and then it can declare any relevant skill. The rules don't adequately cover the difference between the two, because they are primarily written on the assumption that only one model is active at a time.
You're right. I'll post more when I have some time to properly formulate where I think the problem is.
Sure, and that's why I think this needs an FAQ. However in the absence of anything explicitly making the connection we have to apply the the rules as best we can. Which is why I use that checklist (Does the Trooper have an ARO? Is the Target active? Are the requirements of the skill met?): those are what the rules explicitly require for a valid ARO.
Also just to note.... Stealth only prevents an ARO from entering base contact if it's the 2nd move. If it's the first then you generate a regular ARO for entering base.
No, as long as you stay in the back arc, Stealth will prevent an ARO as long as you don't declare CC Attack etc. Move + Idle would be a valid Order and wouldn't generate any AROs.
Oh cool didn't realize that at first always thought it had to be the 2nd short skill. Then this becomes the hacking order SGT. Thing again.
Came up a long time ago about declaring a co-ordinated order with defersen and an order SGT. To provoke a change facing while defersen is stealthed and then hacking the target .
That still isn't a thing. ARO requirements is against "the Active Trooper" which can be any member of the Fireteam. It's in no way shape or form linked directly to the model that triggered the ARO. The sole problem here is that "the Active Trooper" is singular and the plural case (for Fireteams, Coordinated Orders, G:Sync,...) is not mentioned specifically in addition. Regardless of that any member of a Fireteam still is "the Active Trooper" and you can blast a Stealth DeFeresen with Redrum if someone else gives him an ARO opportunity in the same Order. This discussion has always been a "isn't everyone in a Firemteam 'the active Trooper'?" vs some blokes inventing a nonexistant clause for Stealth that prevents them from getting targeted so they could get their free Gotcha and feel smug about it.
The wording is ambiguous. Please don't bash people who don't read it the same as you. It really needs to be officially clarified.
While I agree with your point about not bashing people who disagree with you, I disagree on the other point. RAW is not ambiguous, it's wrong: any ARO vs multiple Troopers fundamentally doesn't work unless you consider all active Troopers to be "the active Trooper" (and that's leaving aside issues around Stealth). The rule needs to be officially clarified because as written they can't work. Once you accept that "the active Trooper" is "any Trooper activated by the order" (which you must, and has never been in question) then how that applies to Stealth / non-Stealthed interactions is unambiguous. Whether or not this is the intended outcome also deserves clarification, but isn't actually necessary.
