Minimum points for a list and retreat

Aside from this being a purely intellectual exercise - no TO would allow such a list - such player wouldn't start his turn in retreat. He would start with a 74 pts army, with Retreat kicking in when he'd have 18 pts left.

 

I think the rule that covers this situation is the one that references Sportsmanship...

 

hahahaaha good catch.....Theres the door

 

So you're saying it's got a <50% chance of winning before the lieutenant roll? Doesn't seem that game-breaking to me, even if someone did rule it legal - which no one would.

 

My understanding is that the retreat threshold is based on the agreed-upon game size (i.e. 300 points) not the exact number of points in your list (296 in this case).

 

I thought it was size of list - which is why Baggage affects your retreat threshold?

 

It's not clear; baggage would apply either way, as it explicitly modifies your retreat threshold.

http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Baggage

• Baggage makes its bearer worth an additional 20 Victory Points.
• This Victory Points increase must be applied when calculating the Retreat! percentage of the Army List.

 

My understanding is based on things like the table under the retreat rule, which includes thresholds for several common game sizes.
http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Retreat!

If the sum of the survivors' Cost in points is equal to or less than 25% of the points available for building the Army List, then that army enters a state of Retreat!.


Emphasis added.

 

Oh I see, yeah I think you're right.

 

There was literally a post on this a few months back. In the Spanish version of the rules, the 25% goes against the full value of the army list (that is, whatever is written on your paper document. So a list of 74pts needs to get down to about 18 to go into retreat), while the english version goes against the amount available to make the list (so a 74pts list would start in retreat).

This is irrelevant, however, since if you win the initiative round, you can simply deploy less than 74pts of models "forgetting" to deploy the rest and start in Retreat.

Aleph can be really egregious with this:
ALEPH
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

4 1
NETROD . (0 | 4)
NETROD . (0 | 4)
NETROD . (0 | 4)
LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

1 SWC | 42 Points

Open in Infinity Army

And you still can cram a Deva functionary if you want, or go for cheap specialists (Dakini Paramedic at 16pts, for example), while cramming the rest of the list with other stuff (like the needed hacker to deploy those dakinis).

 

The problem is with armys that dont have cheap fillers (tohaa) our cheapest unit is the diplomat for 5 points. So there shouldnt be a 295point list but a 296 is possible

 

I don’t believe the rules allow you to not deploy your models. How you choose to resolve this is also left open, but that just means a TO has a lot of flexibility if someone tries to pull this.

 

Some would suggest the best way for a TO to deal with someone trying this is half a brick in a sock :)

 

i had a similar thought last year

and mahtamori provided a list example.

and then we started debating if the spanish words meant 25% of your list or 25% of what was available. English words is clearly the latter.

 

I would actually like a ruling on that so I can make sure mayanet is doing it correctly.

 

Why bother finding a brick when you have the offender's minis to use

 

I'm a stickler for tradition.

Though Caskuda in a sock is also acceptable.

 

I think careful reading of the rules could provide a counter 'gotcha' argument, especially if the anti-rules lawyer has access to the ITS documents, Spanish rules, English rules, and wiki and is willing to cross-reference. However looking for a counter loophole is too much work. The correct answer is a Caskuda in a sock.