Aight, I have a trooper synched with a civilian (such as an HVT). NOT a xenotech. I declare a first short skill move. A nearby enemy mine is triggered, and the template is laid down in such a way as to catch my trooper. The mine is technically removed at this point. I declare a second short skill move, and move my civilian into the mine aoe. The aoe is canceled, and the mine is still removed, right?
No. The Mine is replaced because its triggering is cancelled. Shit be weird, yo It gets weirder if you move the Civvie into the location that was previously occupied by the mine to cancel it's activation. References for @ijw levels of solved: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/index.php?threads/24718/
@inane.imp that's only from the xenotech, from my understanding. They have a special entry for it in the faq and everything. Given that faq entry, I'm fundamentally unconvinced by @ijw 's argument that mines retroactively un-trigger when a civilian walks into the template, especially given what happens with kuang shi explosions.
All Civvies are the same (Designated Targets excepted) so if it applies to the Xenotech it applies to a HVT.
Re-reading the FAQ, if anything that's more definitive than what we had previously: "Do Synchronized Civilians generate AROs? The Civilians do not generate AROs. Note that a Mine whose template affects a Civilian at any point during the Order will not be triggered."
It's not. But the "at any time" and absolute statement of "will not" can be interpreted to read as "even if it should have previously it won't have anymore" so while it's not necessarily equivalent it's plausibly so.
TBH they should just change it to if the owning player deliberately runs civvies into already triggered mines and they die, they lose because they're the ones actually killing them. Fixes the retroactive untriggering weirdness while still keeping the IFF for mines.
Yes, but doesn't stop the weirdness of the mine doing teh template Kaboom then changing its mind and sucking the explosion back in or some crap.
No. They're removed as soon as they're triggered. "Once a Mine triggers, it is removed from play." They're only deployed at Resolution. This stops being nearly so weird if Mines stuck around until Resolution after they triggered: you wouldn't need to re-place them.
That's not really "Once a mine triggers". Once has a sense of immediacy. This is an equivalent statement: "As soon as a Mine triggers, it is removed from play." Or "When a Mine triggers, it is removed from play." Both of which clearly temporally tie the removal from play to the action of triggering. If you wanted it to be removed at Resolution you'd add the phrase "at the conclusion of the order"* to modify the timing. Such as: "Once a Mine triggers it is removed from play at the conclusion of the order." Now it is entirely possible that CB meant for mines to be removed at Resolution but that's not what was written. It would, however, be neater. It's important to note, this isn't just semantics: removing a Mine after Step 3 and prior to Step 5 allows active troopers to Move past areas that would otherwise be blocked by Mines. There's also another case where items are removed in the middle of the order: Perimeter Weapons. If they're not removed immediately after reaching B2B with their target (the point at which they detonate) they can be used to (potentially) block further movement by the active Trooper. While not Engaged with the Perimeter Weapon, an active trooper can't Move through them. * Technically this should be "during the Resolution step of the order", but CB only ever uses "at the conclusion of the order".
Usually in Infinity we declare everything then resolve evrything as if evrything happenned in the same time (just like in Halo when you get killed by an explosion but nonetheless got some grenade stick to the guy that killed you :D ). So in this instance I assume the mine would detect the ennemy, calculate its detonation effect, detect the civilian and eventually not trigger.
It is a stupid quirk of the rules interactions that only exists because CB likes to break its straightforward gameplay structure for no good reason. Why remove the mine immediately when it triggers? That should be handled in resolution. Place the template, like normal, and resolve everything in Resolution. That is essentially what the FAQ says. Only problem is that CB has the mine getting removed when it is triggered for... reasons?
I believe the reason to remove the mine in the exact moment when someone go inside the triiger area is not have the oportunity to make the mine a target of shoots, in a way you could shoot the mine with, for example, one L.shotgunt and impact in some troup behind the mine. But maybe with an explanation like: "When a mine explodes it can't be target of any kind of attack". Best regards!
It's bigger than that: Boost is an ARO and Perimeter Items don't appear to follow the same rules either.
I don't think this is actually 100%. That sentence doesn't necessarily imply some additional timing that the order sequence doesn't normally have. It requires a bit of interpretation, and in this situation where interpretation creates issues, I think I would caution to it not being correct. @Urobros I'm pretty sure mines don't drop camo when they trigger which stops you shooting them. I think you can shoot a un-camo'd mine which was previously discovered even if it was triggering. Paging @ijw.
