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[MILITARY ORDERS TACTICS] Quo Peregrinatur Grex Pastor Secum ["300pts Box" WiP 06/04/19]

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by eciu, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. GingerGiant

    GingerGiant Well-Known Member

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    I had a crazy, fever-dream idea last knight: What if our favorite Holo-projector L2 toting HI was also... a Wildcard for all fireteams? Then we'd have the 'obvious lieutenant' problem solved, because we could just put two models on the table that are obviously lieutenants, and they could both hide in a fireteam.

    "You have two De Fersens?"
    "Yes, that's Father-Officer Gabriele De Santiago, my Santiago with Spitfire Proxy, and his twin brother, Father-Officer Santiago De Fersen, also a Santiago with Spitfire Proxy."
    "What?"
    "Joan of Arc breaks the Crusade Fireteam and enters the Holo-echo state."
     
  2. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    That's what is called Holoprojector L3 and is only available to Patroclus for now (and for a long time, I bet).
     
    eciu likes this.
  3. GingerGiant

    GingerGiant Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think he needed L3, this would be more akin to Hassassin Shenanigans, than having four Achilles. We have AVA 2 on the Sepluchre, so the example could contain two Santiago Spitfires (one of which is actually the LT) and a Sepluchre (pretending to be Joanie), or one Santiago LT and two Sepulchres (one of which masquerading as a Santiago Spitfire, and the other disguised as Joan).
     
    #383 GingerGiant, Sep 26, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  4. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I agree that the access to a even a Holo L1 profile able to disguise himself in a Sergeant or any other knight could be also interesting. Access to L3 and FT core would make him the most feared Holo trooper just by putting FK ML everywhere.
     
  5. Titus

    Titus Varuna Beach Commando

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    Question to fellow MO players: Do you struggle with defense?

    I find myself using almost exclusively Sierra dronbot for defense. And bringing a machinist along becasue otherwise the remote can fall very easily.

    Linked sniper or missile launcher is an option, but I find using the core link in MO as a defensive tool ridiculous. TO sniper is nice but insufficient for that price in my opinion.
     
  6. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

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    Linked Rocket Launchers are pretty good value for points (and while SWC heavy you often don't have the points for many SWC heavy choices elsewhere in a MO force). And you'll often also have access to Shotguns (which are amazing point defense weapons generally but hilariously effective as such in the hands of linked Knights).

    Don't underestimate that Sniper either, it's darn solid.

    But, yes, MO likely relies on the Sierra for point defense more than any other PanOceanian Sectorial.
     
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  7. Lesh'

    Lesh' MAFter of Apes
    Warcor

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    I really like the Father-Knight with Missile Launcher in a core link.
     
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  8. Seraphin

    Seraphin Well-Known Member

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    This, extra added value is assault pistol for close-range B5 shooting. Because you can attach single OS to fireteam of every order, it makes it good addition and cheap (points) filler for HI links.
     
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  9. Capo.Paint

    Capo.Paint Member

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    The best defensive option I have experienced is a Magister-core with one ML, two normal dudes, one OS and a wildcard Santiago or the Teuton spitfire. All Magisters are on overwatch and the normal dudes start dodging into safety when the panzerfaust is empty. Normally that scares many problems away or shredd them into pieces. And you have enough points and SWC left for cool other stuff.
     
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  10. Titus

    Titus Varuna Beach Commando

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    Ah yes... Magister ML + Magisters with two Magisters with panzerfausts was my everyday defensive troops in old MO. Along with two Santiago knights.

    I still have to try the Father Knight ML, but with CD14 and BLI 5 doesn't sound bad. Just very easy to ignore with some smoke or getting some TO/camo skirmisher inside his short range and attack him.
     
  11. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    The thing with ARM 5 and 2W is that you can withstand a lot of punishment. If you suspect that the camo token as nothing better than a MULTI Rifle/SMG, I think you can still detect to force some hard choices to your opponent. And the FK is still dodging on 14 and has a Pistol, so he is rather hard to put on a bad foot. That's why you pay 49 points after all : to have something really nasty to take down.
     
  12. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Aha, a lot of standing power...

    http://inf-dice.ghostlords.com/n3/?...Blackout&p2.hack_b=1&p2.cover=3&p2.misc_mod=0
     
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  13. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Oh yeah! 61% of dropping 1W on a HI is soooo relevant. Sure the guy won't roll for ducking in cover so the next time, you'll have to fight him out of cover to deal the second wound... or even go for definitive total cover so you'll have the table until the guy shows up again during his active turn so you'll have to deal with him but you won't have the orders to deal with him and whatever pressure your opponent put to you.
    Dropping two is a lot more and it'll happen in a bit more than 1 time out of four in average. You have much more chance to not loose any wound rather than two, not talking about how hard it is to get rid of the FK definitely. Am I the only one pesting about the fact that I can't kill an unconscious Kamau sniper? Or that I have to use sometime 4 orders to put a TR bot dead because of insane ARM rolls?

    And I woud say that if you're so afraid of Vet Kazak AP HMG, you can force him to split with a TO OS (FO or Sniper, your preference).
    I personally rarely played the TO OS due to personal preference but the FK ML never felt me. Dropping unconscious is in the scope of the planned things for any ARO piece when you stand in face of the most effective active turn units of the game. Because your opponent can't send anything else against a FK ML than the best he has. A Heckler RF, a Strelock T2 MR or even Plushenkon will spend a ton of orders to deal with him with no possibility to fail (because failure means death). Heck, even the KB HMG will sweat to just drop him unconscious.
     
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  14. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    There isn't much that can reliably stand a F2F with a kazak AP HMG. Your argument is irrelevant.

    When facing such a strong active model, the point is to place yourself such that you are annoying your opponent, looking at some objective, shooting at warband as they rush toward you or anything that suit your strategie so that they have to spend order to move the vet kazak and shoot at you. If your FK costed 3 or 4 order to your opponent (2 move move action + one order to shoot at you, then probably some order to fall back), your investment is probably worth it.

    Or what would you suggest (with any army you want) ?

    I personnaly think magister are more cost efficient for that role, but that's just me. On the other hand the FK can synergize with sergent, and the black friar. The same black friar that can easily handle a Kamau msv 2 using a sergent as a "bait" for ARO.
     
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  15. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Strange I thought we are discussing "low BS factions" which for many Ariadna is.

    Point is that there is now very small number of factions without "grade A" main shooters (Vet Kazaks, Krizas, Omega's etc.) and/or smoke/eclipse. Whole point of ML ARO is:

    a) making enemy to manuever a little more problematic (template versus linked shooters)
    b) making that lucky crit/outdace count (even a TAG might sweat a little when hit by EXP) as many grade A shooters (but a Specnaz) has more than 1W making any combi/pistol crit irrelevant in most cases

    None of those things are supplied by FK ML. Actually "only" things his 2W and ARM5 achieve is to give him a relative resilience to things like BSG Fiday or mine he deploy (wanted to add Speculo, but she has MA3 and Mono) (also FK CC actually makes Fiday really to first go against poor OSs in his link than him).

    Dunno. I'm on opinion that actually a link is what somewhat enables FK ML in any kind list (as previously it was really "dead" profile), yet he's not as "superior tanky option" as many perceive him. I'm on a stance that most of time simple Magister with Panzerfaust actually is more desirable as an ARO piece than FK (you can get 2 for price cheaper than FK ML, on the other hand MO has now a problem with cramming all 300 pts into single combat group). Yes I know about Panzerfaust having only 2 shots, but the opportunity cost for FK ML seems too steep when comparing it to Magisters (also ranges are better than ML).

    Again, I've played BF in link team and it's glorious (putting good old Koni in really weird spot, who among youngsters can remember that he used to be only specialist linkable in OS links xD?). It's just those poor OSs who make this link really awkward ;/

    The more I play the more I think that actually OSs link is a trap (even if you shove there Santiagos/BF/FK and Koni) as it is still too vulnurable to venture alone forth into the field on turn 1/2 and doesn't leave you enough points to pick strong solo units (TAGs, Dart, occasional KotHS).

    tldr; FK ML is too expensive when compared to Magisters, and really ARM5 is not that impressive in this game unless your enemy happen to only bring combis to a fight (at which point you are really playing against newbie or you already won)
     
  16. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    I would simply state that I'm wary of dumping a third of my points and SWC into a single aro piece even if it has 5 orders. Starting at 2 20s before negative mods in fantastic, but it has a large number of counters, primarily in its weaker supporting dudes and smoke. As soon as you start shedding those, it becomes a lot less desirable fast. Its strong but it has one hell of an achilies heel.