Yes, Spec Ops can do a lot of things. But I don't think MO need one to perform well. Now that Jammers are a thing in fireteam when they are allowed, I think that this option will be even less chosen than before.
Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 1 KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) ORDER SERGEANT (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (Doctor, Engineer) Combi Rifle, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 39) 5.5 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army Plan of bringing this list to a tournament, thoughts? The spec ops can still join fireteams, can he?
Upgrade Magister to DA and I would slightly change the SpecOP. I would either go with Veteran (instead of LRL) or go with LSG and take Minelayer (mines are nice, though you already have TOFOOS for that). Veteran approach might be nice against those pesky Jammer. Also: why not Feubarach instead of LRL ? It seems a better weapon for both active and reactive (skilled players will probably avoid LRL splash alltogether)
I'm gonna suppose that the fireteam are Hospitalier haris with the spec op and a core with the magister, the Santiagos, teuton and order Sergeant
Almost. My idea is to use two fireteams. One will be the main force. The 'teuton' fire team with the teuton NCO, the santiagos, the spec ops sarge and the magister with DA CCW. The other will be the HRL, HMG and doctor. I may swap the spec ops for HRL in that slot but I'd like to have a doctor per fireteam. And yeah, gonna swap for feuerbach. I'm not enthused with the idea of giving him shotgun and minelayer, @eciu mainly because there's already a lightshotgun in that team and there's two minelaying capable soldiers in the list.
Yep, I've missed Magister. But Veteran might (with dropbears) might be usefull (Zulu Cobra / Heckler on roof).
That's what fataly happens when you chose to run Hospitallers and Santiagos. Though, at short range, this should be enough against most of the troopers tempted to take a fight with your knights as players rarely risk their best units at this range during turn 1 (or because you deployed so badly and the level between you and him is so huge that he feels comfortable to do so). Minelayer isn't everything. You can make a good use of a non Minelayer TO Mine carrier thanks to the fact that there is nothing telling your opponent he should be afraid to take some alleys. You can trap entire FT full of cheerleaders this way while Minelayer would just have made your opponent waste one order to dogde the mine with the HI in this FT and then he would know a TO trooper is around there.
Eugh, I've had enough. I'm giving up on MO. I just can't win with them at all, and I'm sick of being beaten game after game by lists I have no chance of beating. I just got 10-0'd by Tak in Supremacy twice in a row, and in the last game, there was genuinely nothing I could do. We don't have the points or orders spare to put up ARO pieces, and it feels like heavy infantry link teams are just a huge trap. Every faction has things that just outright nullifies heavy infantry (better hackers, T2 ammo etc), and it's just fucking pissed me off. Yes I am salty, yes I expect someone to tell me to "git gud", but I've had it with them. I am pissed off enough that I am considering ditching infinity entirely to be honest, as I feel like I have been lured into wasting my money. Rant over, sort of, but I genuinely am at a loss as to where to go from here.
whats your game plan? Not what are you taking in your lists, but what are you aiming to achieve in supremacy and then what tools are you taking to do that? How is he nullifying your strengths (good linked HI that are solid in CC and hard to shoot to death? (and by that I mean, why are his T2 armed HI or streloks/frontoviks able to pick favourable fights with your MO units of choice?) Is MO really going to have affected the outcome? or is the same thing likely to have happened (or worse) if you were using VIRD or ASA. (with the only difference being he has more of your units to kill) If you give us more details perhaps we can start looking at how to address the issue you are having
So to build on the above what im getting at is, recently I played MO in a tournament and this is the list I ran. Now the list wasnt built as "this is my MO list to do all MO list things" it was built to achieve what I wanted it to achieve in Supremacy, namely... with those goals in mind I then built the following list to achieve them. ultimately the game becomes pretty clockwork at that point. grab at least 2 buttons early and do your Xenotech (go on camo, I dare you to reveal and die next order) then kill whatever AROs are stupid enough to be out in the open with the tueton (or the tr HMGs if they are a serious threat to the tueton) advance into your XT zone, bunker down with you TO FO in the other (who pushed the button remember) and dare them to come and root you out. Turn two, push the other buttons, then blow them up so the opponent cant get them, grab more zones if you can but you dont really need too, and cut off anything your opponent pushed with. then dare him to come get you again. turn 3 push him and punish him. MO 1.5 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 2 TEUTONIC KNIGHT Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 37) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 49) TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) GROUP 2 3 SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) 4 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Are you using Order Sergeants? 1 SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) 1.5 SWC | 33 Points That's one of the best costed ARO pieces in the game with very little junk attached it. TBH it sounds like you're over investing in high costed stuff expecting it to perform like a 40k Terminator death star and not die when people attack them, which means you may have some fundamental misunderstandings on how the game functions or the level of lethality in Infinity. You should probably do what @daboarder says and post the lists you're playing with so people can take a look at them.
I dont want to over focus on the list though triumph, im more interested in how herod it trying to ensure he wins than what specifically hes taking
That's fair, although I do want to know how he's building the list that makes him feel like he can't afford ARO pieces because that sounds like a significant problem that needs correction.
Yeah thats fair, MO has solid enough ARO in my perspective though i think it means relying on flashbots trhmg bots to msrs and the fk ml (though magisters are a good dual role link) Its not the same denial as say vird and asa with their mines and jammers. MO area denial comes from holding ground with HI
I genuinely advice to try a different army/sectorial. MO are one of the most limited armies in the game and simply lacks options that are nowadays common in other sectorials. Of course don't buy new models. Ask a friend to lend you some and/or proxxy a list you are interested in. Try a few games with those and see if you have fun with Infinity. Infinity can be great fun but it can be also very frustrating. It is a very swingy game due to crits and the ability of cheap units to utterly devastate more expensive ones (this is also a draw to the game because you can at least try to get out of bad situations). MO though has even more eggs in a single basket than others. Sometimes a well placed E/Marat and a few bad dodge rolls can instantly remove half your army (temporarily) from the game. Or a Speculo/Oniwaban can take advantage of your always obvious Lt. Infinity's core game mechanics certainly make sure that winning with MO is always an option but the army itself is way less forgiving than others. If you really want to stick with MO don't feel discouraged to post a few lists on the forum and get some feedback (Or other armies as well of course). While it is certainly true that a good list won't just win you the game for you a bad one can certainly lose it for you. Also take everything people tell you about the game with a grain of salt (especially on list advice). Infinity is a very complicated game. Think about advice people give to you on your own and try out what works for you. I do wish for you to get your money's worth of fun out of the game in the future.
With magister knight and FK missile launcher with sergent (not my favorite) and TO sniper, ARO is one of the think MO do best with their HI imo. That's probably more a gameplan issue than a list issue. That being said, MO is a very specific faction with a very special gameplay. If you want to try a more generic and all aound faction without spending to much money I would recommand playing vanilla Pano. You can use some of your knight, even use the sergent / knights to proxy other Pano models. Remotes are the same. Joan is very useful in generic Pano. Buy a Cutter or a Squalo (or use a seraph as a proxy) and enjoy overhelming fire power. Use anything to proxy a Liberto for cheap ARO + Zulu Cobra etc ...
