You do not have to. There CAN be 0 Order Sergeants in an "Order Sergeant" Fireteam. Both Santiagos and Father Knights can freely enter an "Order Sergeant" Fireteam, plus the Black Friar Multi. So the example above is perfectly legal.
Well. That went from "unicorns & magic & friendship" a little bit too close to "hello darkness my old friend" a little bit too fast. I will try to sit on the weekend and make some small general review, and then start updating all entries for the units, sectorial summary etc. For sure almost no "pre 3rd offensive" list works anymore for MO. List building for MO has changed tremendously.
Same actually. I am really curious about the potential for an aggressive order sergeant core as well, mixing in father knights and a Santiago possibly, backed with some of the closer range nastiness. Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
I will try that today in a match VS a friend playing CA... I just want to give a shot to see how effective they are. The list is this, nothing spectacular, as I said, just curiosity New Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50) FATHER-KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 49) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) BLACK FRIAR MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 30) 7 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I'll let you know how it works
My take on a OS core. Ironclad ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 8 2 FATHER-KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 49) FATHER-KNIGHT Spitfire / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 50) FATHER-KNIGHT Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 43) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 43) JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army
Ok, first go with this new MO was a win by concede from my oppo, (I've to admit that he was unlucky and I got a final lucky ARO crit from my Black Friar on a Noctifer in surprise shot) but a win is a win... no? In the end, the haris worked well, and the father-knight was a monster with a BS that could reach 20 thanks at range and FT before applyng the penalty. I must say that I like it, but I want to do more playtest and also try the Teuton+magister fire team core (I bought the new MK before and I want to use them, they are beautiful) to try the NCO on the berserker guy.
Why so negative? The MO are far more flexible now. A lot more viable lists. This a a great change. Sure, we have obvious expensive LT but we gain a ton of flexibility in exchange. I say its well worth it.
I mean, Military Orders seem interesting enough to get into now, at least to me. Which is why I just ordered the MO box and it'll HOPEFULLY arrive before N4. ( Granted this decision may have also been influenced for my unashamed and probably annoying at this point love for HI units, and MO does have 10 of the 15 HI total that PanO has... )
Tell me how you make a Fireteam core without sergeants if the rest of the people dont have the fireteam: Core Skill
I don't think Joan is a great match with two Fireteams personally. I think I'll be looking at something along these lines: Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Lieutenant MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35) FATHER-KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 49) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 3 1 SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army
I came her Brothers to find redress from the outside world as the sinful novice I am, will you heed my appeal? As I said before I am quite new to MO so I ask what purchases you suggest useful past what I have already got, i.e. 300pts Box, Konstantinos, all Joans (V2 and LE), Father-Knight SE, Magister Knights box, De Fersen, Warcor. Some notes here on proxies: for father engineer and techbee I will proxy miniwise, the first is plain awful, the second's outfit is out of theme and I use Marine Officer from Fleeting Alliance, MSR TOOS fittingly is Knauf. All in all I prefere to proxy old MO miniature with new one pending resculpting as the old ones next to the new look quite embarrassing. Thanks all for your suggestions
There's no such skill as "Fireteam: Core". It was just placed under skills as a reminder when builder was a new thing, I guess. It should be moved to a separate section that has Special Fireteams listed ATM, IMO. For now, when in doubt, refer to list of Fireteams.
I dont think so. Tell me, what you need to make a fireteam Haris? The haris skill. What you need to make an Enomotharcos Fireteam? The enomotharcos skill. What do you need to make a fireteam Core? IMO, an OS Fireteam without Sergeants is illegal.
Fireteam: Haris is a Special Skill. Fireteam: Triad is a Special Skill. Fireteam: Enomotarchos is also a Special Skill. You can find them all in the rules and they are specifically mentioned in sections dedicated to those specific Fireteams. They are on Wiki. Fireteam: Core is not a Special Skill. it's not on Wiki, it's not listed as a requirement in the section dedicated to Fireteam: Core rules. You can ask elders about the reason Fireteam: Core is in the builder, listed as a Special Skill it is not, but beware as some of them are homicidally annoyed by the notion of "Fireteam: Core skill" at this point. Also, obligatory "CB's rule consistently, ho!"
Okay I'm finally back home and had some time to take an in depth look at everything. We all know old MO was rather limited but was quite scary built around the few things that worked well. 16 Orders turn 1 Alpha Strike with 5 man Core and a TAG? Sure. Competetive lists without a single hackable target? Sure. The TL:DR is I'm out of here. Got the MO army deal, Santiagos and Magisters still in the box. Not going to bother even opening it. You just can't build a friggin list worth a damn in a competetive format anymore. Mutually exclusive choices, the death of the previous anchor Core team, the excruciating extra points neccessary to fit a Hacker for access to Orders, being forced to run either Joan or a DZ dwelling useless HI, Fatherknighs & Teutons left out to dry, dealing with Hacking . None of the new Core Links are good enough to make up for the shitshow of a support lineup you can fit in with it. Anyone who gives a damn about actually being competetive will know how bad 10 Order lists are. CB just introduced a whole truckload of ways to make that kind of list work better and I'm pretty pleased how IA has turned out, one has to wonder why about none of that shows up in MO. Recent additions to NCA, SAA and the addition of Varuna all feel and play great. Then there is MO after the changes and I'm not even sure calling it the "red headed stepchild" of PanO is enough to express where MO appears on the chart now. I love the concept of MO. Blending shooting with CC in the absence of Smoke is a challenge but a rewarding one. Stuck with PanO's usual lack of skills and equipment you make the best of what you have with raw power and the scarce but excellent support choices you have. Now MO feels gutted. The core is just gone instead of gaining meaningful competition to enable choices. The truly bad choices remain utter garbage and are untouched. Santiagos as the runner up to be a worthy competitor to Hospitalers simply vanish and reapear as solo wildcard bandaids that are meant to glue this new abomination together. The core list concept the majority of all MO lists used to revolve around doesn't work anymore. A few things disappear or get shifted around et voilà... same list as before simply gets 20 points more expensive and needs to figure out how to fit in one of those awesome 35 points HI Lts on top. Now you have a subpar version of the same list concept, that was keeping up with the truly great, but still tier 2 at best. Unfortunately that's not even the reason why you need to bin it, the ultimate reason the whole thing died isn't that you're running the same thing at 4 Orders less for no upside. Remember where we had access to a core linked HMG in a great link to pay tribute to the fact that we're a PanO Sectorial without access to Guards, HMG TAGs and the usual Smoke but still have to solve a lot of problems with firepower? Poof and it's gone. A couple years ago the Hospitaler HMG used to be the meanest guy around relying just on raw stats in his weapon class. Nowadays Vet Kazaks, Dakini and Kamau handily outperform him. He wasn't the most feared thing around, he was a means to an end - leaving your DZ. Fusiliers used to be a crutch you had to use because game mechanics require you to not let your Lt die if you desire to perform somewhat consistent, they also provided a handy battery of somewhat affordable Orders on top. Poof. Now removing those options isn't the issue. Not replacing them is. A FD2 Spitfire isn't a replacement for Core Linked HMG Rangebands in the safety of the home DZ. 50+ points CoC access isn't a replacement for line infantry Lt shell games. Those are different solutions to address different problems and I frankly don't see how the designers themself can claim to understand the core concept of their own game anymore when MO in this current state made it through playtesting right next to Varuna, TAK and Vanilla Aleph after Vedic was added. Requiescat in pace Military Orders † 2018 Deus Vult my lads.
Harsh call, but I can see why you feel this way. I'm still working things over, but it's tough to respond with anything strong to these criticisms... which is a worry.
