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Military Orders Sectorial in N4?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Böhmi, Oct 20, 2020.

  1. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust

    Nov 30, 2017
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    In the post in the pic above, it appears that only MO is getting delayed. I have to imagine everything else is still on schedule unless they tell us otherwise.
  2. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

    Feb 21, 2017
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    Well, all the Out Of Production armies are due in November.

    We were never explicitly told that the Military Orders revamp would happen at the same time.

    It's actually fair enough that it doesn't, given how much work likely has to go in behind the scenes for the likes of NeoTerran Capitaline Army and the Shock Army of Acontecimento up and running in N4.

    I, too, am actually pretty positive about this development as it likely means that something more meaningful will happen rather than a few minor tweaks (all we could realistically expect to happen this month).
    Stiopa and Brokenwolf like this.
  3. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Mar 5, 2018
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    I'm sorry, but i have very little faith that mo will actually become something i want to play at this point. we have very little reason to believe that more time = a better quality update.
    Pinky, Skoll and Lesh' like this.
  4. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

    Feb 21, 2017
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    I'm with @AdmiralJCJF on this, it might be good for MO if they actually spend some time on development instead of quickly throwing some stuff together, because we didn't like what we got.
    Guardian and AdmiralJCJF like this.
  5. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

    Apr 25, 2017
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    I feel like just randomly slapping some stuff together is what they've done for MO lately . The non commitment to a date, is also something I'm kinda salty about.

    MO is coming "sometime" that could be November of next year for all we know, or even longer
  6. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2020
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    Military Orders is already released in N4; it’s rework being delayed is not indicative of the a delay in the second wave of N4 Army.
  7. Lady Numiria

    Lady Numiria Cyberius TaskForce

    Sep 12, 2019
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    I'm ok with no rework, mainly because I find it really usable as it is now (despite still lacking too much actual OOP minis to let anyone plays it correctly - I speak of Santiago, Montesa or Trinitarians) + don't forget pandemic is really reducing meta playtesting and such (even with TTS)...

    There's no point in burning some months/a year of your version life expectancy in useless game updates when it's better not to and report them for a bit later.
    Dragonstriker, chromedog and Lesh' like this.
  8. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

    Nov 23, 2017
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    Considering how long MO has ben on the lower end of the curve, CB should take all the time they need to deliver.
    When I want to play Knights/HI in PanO at the moment I'd go to Sval in a heartbeat.
    MO isn't bad, but it's mostly the Montesa Tik and Trinitarians carrying their sorry ass - Outside of Magister Core Links as usual.

    The N3 Update butchered the Hospitaler Link options and the Magister HMG Core in favor of the same thing with Santiago Spitfire Wildcards. The update also removed Fusiliers and enforced an array of subpar Hi Lt choices that struggle being relevant next to Joan.
    Illusion of a choice exists in one of the worst platforms for CoC in the game. Limited insertion in MO is more or less a joke without a way to spend the Lt Order on a Link, TAG or Tactical Awareness access supplementing Order economy.

    The N4 Update did nothing to address Lt situation or Order economy, but added what's probably the most efficient TAG in the game. Having the option to outsource your striking Power to a TAG with excellent Trinitarian support allows your Lt to hang back and sit in a hard to crack Link, something Joan can't do without a mutually exclusive Hospitaler Core. It's not ideal, but it's better than before. The Teutons got an NCO, which is a start but still leaves the problem of opportunity cost.

    In a balanced environment MO would bring incentives to run Knights that aren't min maxed Frenzy deals, by adding interesting loadouts with gear or Skills or Order Economy upgrades like NCO and Tac Awareness. Hospitalers wouldn't get locked out of the rest of the Sectorial. As the necessary Link glue they are, some Magisters should be able to join any link, not Order Sergeants. 4 PZF wielding Magisters + HMG or 3 with a Doc was pretty strong at the start of N3, no question about it. But is it a problem in N4 where Vet Kazak AP HMGs are Wildcards? Where Sval can link Karhu anywhere including 6-2 Firewall C+ Orcs and 6-2 KoJs?
    4-4 holds MO back and that's okay. Having only hackable Lt choices should provide a way to secure them, make them contribute from the DZ like Joan or utilize their Order via LT (L2) + NCO, Strategos, +1 Command Token.... for the love of our Space Pope Seraphs are Father Officers, every other PanO Sectorial has a TAG Lts, take a hint CB.
    Being able to fight at HMG Rangebands in a Smokeless Sectorial is non negotiable. Within the context of N4 a BS14 Core Linked HMG with no further MODs is far from top shelf. Let Hospitalers breathe and take the pressure of them. The Montesa Tik didn't do MO any favors, it's plain and simple too good for its own good next to the competition.

    It's no secret I'm no fan of the Wildcard craze. It's lazy it's boring and it kills diversity. Don't think I'd ever run a Sval Link without a Karhu, which is odd for a troop that was excellent but limited to Duo in N3. Similar to Karhu Magisters are too good as Link glue to just let them Wildcard everywhere.
    Something needs to happen to OS as well. 13 points for the Regular Order, fine. But give them options now that TO Sergeants no longer clutter their Profiles. Your best Proflie being a a Paramedic because your Sectorial is full of PH14 Knights is iffy. MSV2 Spitfire being able to link is dope, but where's the thing they do for 13 points base cost? Now that it's cheaper, Combi+LSG? CC19 Para CCW/MA1? (Not great but I'd take it)
    KotHS. The guy is supposed to be Elite. Make him the solo he was always supposed to be. NCO, Specialist Operative, +3 BTS +1MA, Surprise Attack (-6), AP Spitfire/Breaker Rifle +1B, CCW upgrade (E/M CCW?) there are very easy options up for grabs.
    Crusaders. Okay ARM3 is decent now. If you have 2W. N3 dropped the ball on MI in N4. The MI base Profile is still weirdly expensive (compare Bagh/Nisse/Wildcat/Grenzer/Bolt to Karhu/Kamau) and you basically need to be a minmaxed bargain bag to be any good if you're MI. Pretty much no MI in the game makes sense as their own link. They're all better off to slot one or two of their best Specialists/Gunners into LI/HI. Crusaders in their current iteration could be fixed with Frenzy or Dogged, or we could forget about the Santiago BSG and give them the designspace as MO's light HI droptroop instead of Santiagos.
    Black Friars same problem. Not only are they MI, which makes them inefficient at their core, the Sniper still can't link with 13 point OS in a game that has Haidaos, Kamau, Karhu, Grenzers and soon Bolts and Baghs joining better basetroops. The MR managed to somehow not get cheaper despite Multirifles dropping by 2 points and catching competition from Konstantinos Wildcard and OS MSV2 Spitfire in his Links. Universal +3 Discover doesn't make up for that.
    The Seraph is where AP ammo should have gone to begin with, not the Tik. He did get a rather substantial CC buff, which somehow made him more expensive than the Tik? Superjump got nerfed hard, again a point for the Tik, with C+ remaining excellent as ever. ARM7 is no doubt good, but I doubt a pip of ARM is worth more than Mimetism. I don't know what went wrong here, CC capability is great, but not worth the difference in a Sectorial that has better CC FTF rolls starting at 22 points.

    I'd rather see things redesigned from scratch than another attempted fix within the apparent boundaries. IA isn't in a good place either, so whatever it takes, maybe give those guys some love as well.
    Redesigned Link rules could do a lot of good here. One of the biggest problems with both Sectorials is the usual "5 HI walk around a corner - Surprise Noctifier" making any aggressive HI Core a risky proposition.
    #28 Teslarod, Nov 9, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
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