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Military Orders Rework?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Palomides, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. Zoccola

    Zoccola Angry Maple Syrup Powered Italian
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    Teutons are a CC unit in a faction that predominantly, dominates at range. They need something to help them get to CC. As we know, PanO will NEVER get smoke (which is ridiculous in my opinion, having faced down against enough MSV2/Smoke lists on my opponents' side of the table.

    There are three ways to go about doing this IMHO:
    1) Some type of forward deployment or mechanized deployment. Personally I would like to see Mechanized deployment as we lost it with the Montessa, and it is an under-utilized skill.

    2) Change the movement stat. Make them 6-2. This would make it much easier for them to get into CC. I know that means that when berserked, they are usually going to be taking the +6 MOD then instead of Assault, but it would make them more feared.

    3) Give them Eclipse Grenades. If PanO can't get Smoke because of MSV3, why can't we get more of these babies. They would do what we need them to do, i.e. hide the Teutons from enemy fire. And with the Guarda d'Assaulto being discontinued for the foreseeable future, it would give the option back to the faction.
     
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  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    If you don't think Domaru are terrifying to engage, we need to get a game in.
     
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  3. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    While I would have been on your side before the release of the new chart, I can't agree now with you. Teutons have already Spitfires and rifles to close the distance. What was lacking to them and to the now dead Santiago team was a way to make a way through the first 15 cm ahead because of the lack of a good lone HMG bearer. You needed the Hospitaller or you were stucked with the Sierra and if you were taking the Hospitaller, why not take the full team instead of one guy who will go crazy at your next turn? And you couldn't switch between Hospitallers and Santiagos for the core with Magisters in the middle of the game because of this stupid rule about making the Core Special Fireteam. Could you do that, I think we would have seen more Santiagos played.
    But now, we have the Tikbalang. So I can easily see myself playing it along to a Core of Teutons+Magisters without having this problem about making the first steps outside my DZ.
    Last but not least, don't forget that CC is not a goal for PanO knights, It is more a solution if shooting is struggling. And it is a good deterrent against 1W CC experts without Valor L2-3.
     
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  4. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    lol sorry, I phrased that incorrectly , i meant cheap like domaru. where you know the trade even if guaranteed is in your favor (because domaru are almost 100% at least isolating their target) or making sure it dies like Ajax. because there is little that can engage ajax in CC and chew through his 2 wounds + nwi and take a dmg 16 exp blow
     
  5. derbrizon

    derbrizon Well-Known Member

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    I think the umbra Samaritan and the oyoroi are about the only things that might stand a chance at killing him without dying in cc
     
  6. Beodren

    Beodren Well-Known Member

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    McMurder Has a chance too, and most likely will take Ajax with himself.
     
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  7. derbrizon

    derbrizon Well-Known Member

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    Mcmurder has total immunity right? If that's the case, he's got a really good chance of smoking ajax
     
  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Other than Samaritans/O-Yoroi/Achilles, what is there that can reliably chew through an EXP CCW Teuton?
     
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  9. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Galwegans ?

    I put it other way, what's are good targets for Teutons to use his Berserk on ?
     
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  10. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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  11. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Chimera and Pupniks, which is basically cheating. But yes in general EXPCCW and Berserk is heinous.
     
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  12. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Btw. just struck me.

    Apparently grand rework of MO is a very new thing.

    Mind that new Magister Knights were painted in Hospitallers colors and now they won't be able to link together.

    Quite funny as old "Teuton" Magisters are now more "right" than a new ones xD
     
  13. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    Morlocks, jaguars, yojimbo, fiday, al-djabel, magisters , domaru, oyama, shaolin monk,shikami , sphinx, avatar, seraph ?

    Anything with ma2 and a da ccw has a 52% to put two wounds through a teuton. Majority of choices on that list are cheaper by a good margin than the teuton, hell i didnt even spend time listing all of em.

    And when you get to tags, they stand a good chance of wiping the teuton in the first exchange while only taking 1 wound in return.

    If they at least had ap+exp ccw to be a credible threat to heavier targets, my opinion of them might change a little. It is still a middle range cost heavy infantry that cant reliably win f2f rolls in cc and wants to berserk to be able to do anything, which leads to a more than good chance he'll be taking wounds.
     
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  14. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    That doesn't necessarily means it was a last minute change. Mind, that before Magisters and OS were painted in Teuton colours, even though neither could link with them at the time. So it's likely that CB simply decided "Hospitallers are primary Order here, and other units simply reflect that.
     
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  15. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well it also changes a fluff a bit as afair Magister were just memebers of every Order (similar to how OS is a rank alongside very Order).
     
  16. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    All of which can easily chew through Ajax.
     
  17. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    I'm fine with it, I've been painting mine as Santiago, good to see CB has finally caught up with me. :)
     
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  18. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    Except no they cant ?even if ajax opts to berserk and not use nbw , the chances of anyone with a da ccw and ma2 drops to 39% to do a second wound.

    Which would merely put ajax into nwi which would still let him operate.

    But ajax actually has the option to shut down the opponents ma . Which means the opponent drops down to only 70% chance to do a single wound and a mere 23% chance to do a second wound.

    And for the tags ajax can opt for mode B of NBW and bump his f2f roll to respectable levels and not need to berserk at all. So no those targets dont chew through Ajax at all like they would chew through a teuton
     
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  19. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    My apologies, I think we're still talking past each other.

    Roughly speaking, anything that doesn't want to be in combat with Ajax also doesn't want to be in combat with a Teuton, and anything that can take down a Teuton in one Order/ARO is also likely to do substantial damage to Ajax.
     
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  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Lol. Many most dangerues TAGs can squish Teuton in single unoposed ARO, a contrary to what Ajax is who can reliably (or almost reliably) get at least 2 unopposed CC attacks on TAGs (with petter PH and higher Crit Chance).
     
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