I think this might be my new test for "meta terrain density". If you can unironically suggest two Baggage Remotes as cheerleaders with a straight face then your meta is using too much terrain.
True, but they are cheaper with it, and that wasn't the gripe. Three cheap orders are still available to us.
Im mainly concerned at the price of shooting out of deployment zone with hospitaller link being significantly more expensive (as it has to be all hospitallers + one of our sub ins, like joan, defersen or a Santiago). If we dont get eclipse what is going to ve the viable solution in non spitfire friendly boards. Ive had plenty of games with a linked ml staring down my link at the 28 inch mark, which would have proved insurmountable to a Santiago link Will the tik be sufficient to offset the cost. I dont know yet
It would be cool to see a LT seraph since they were supposed to house leaders who kept charging the frontlines and getting gibbed
Before, you could take a 18 points Fusilier to unlock 3 Orders for 24. Now the cheapest choice is a 21 points OS. Unless they rework OS somehow they're still pretty bad for their points, lets be honest here. They're 30% more expensive as cheerleaders for virtually no benefit compared to Fusiliers. It's definitely gonna be necessary to wait for all Profiles to come to a proper verdict here. But the Lt Problem isn't fixed by taking 2 HI that can be Lt. It's beyond me how people always assume things are gonna be fine for no reason or because their opponents aren't exploiting every advantage they can get. Well, I am doing that and it's annoying as hell when people who don't seem to care about proper usability at higher levels. At the same time they tell you "it's fine because I played two games in my local meta and it was like that, so you guys have to take my ridiculous oppinion for a fact so I don't get offended" - that's the part that always seemed weird to me. Heck I make a point to find weakpoints to prey on to have an easier game. Most of those weakpoints are a mix of listbuilding and deployment mistakes. Which goes full circle and arrives at the whole 'it's not your list it's you' argument, which Imho is still a comment no one with a proper clue would ever think to bring up either.
the tax on OSs isnt much really, if you are forking out the pts for a scrub "order generator", you should be paying the few extra points to give that scrub a role in game, making them a specialist so they can push buttons is well worth minimal investment a pair of them will cost you (4 pts between 2) Couple with the fact that those things are also able to heal at range your High PH HI in a pinch, and they may not be as great as FO fusiliers but they are far from bad enough to be a critical weakness. The weakness of MO in terms of line infantry options and limitations can be made up for by leveraging the strengths of the faction. Massed HI, now with not just tough and rugged Attack pieces, but Tough Scoring and resiliant ARO pieces to go with them. We've got rumours that FKs are linkable with other units, that may mean OS (So yes a BS 14 ARM 5 1.5 SWC ML in a flipping Core link. And Santiago's definitely are (A B5 BS 17 Spitfire for cheap as chips) Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 44) 1.5 SWC | 100 Points Open in Infinity Army And if FKs get Wildcard as well we have this Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) FATHER-KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 49) 1.5 SWC | 105 Points Open in Infinity Army Hell take both with the HI ascting as the "6th" link member. As too Lts, A HI LT doesnt need a decoy, its usually big enough, tough enough and burried in support enough that you take one, and then tell the opponent to come and have a go if they think they are hard enough. and thats only if you arent taking Joan (And Im still thinking why wouldnt you) she doesnt get decoys and its not like its cramped her 50 pt style for N3. Orders, link options, restricted Lts and the loss of fusiliers are not going to be problems in this sectorial Hell from what we've seen MO may just become the strongest PanO sectorial by far and I for one am probably more excited for the gameplay potential they offer than Varruna at this point
MO had the problem before already, 2 viable Lts - usually Fusilier, sometimes Joan. You can try all you want to talk that away, it's not gonna happen. I don't care for arguments like 'Santiago Lts are amazing' that has nothing do to with the problem, which simply is: LoL mechanics are shite. You're simply better off playing a list that circumvents having to deal with the issue somehow. Killing a MOD less HI is never going to be very tough to pull off in a world where Dart, Su-Jians, Hollowmen or Obiwabans exist. A tough Lt + CoC or 3+ LI sitting Prone o rooftops spread out over your DZ are usually whar works as a deterrent. I'm very uncomfortable these days with even G:Mnem as Isolation utterly screws you over. Running a lot of Oniwaban BSGs, Proxy MK2 AHD, Achilles, Dart and Tik I'm winning tough matchups, essentially for free through LoL mechanics. A suspicious Camo Marker in the DZ or 4 potential Lt Alguaciles in close proximity to each other gets you facerolled against someone who kows what he's doing.
mate, You dont need to invest a 3rd or more of any list into lt protection Look for defense in depth not "this guy is out on his own" Set up overlapling fire, apply your own pressure and include some face tanking aros. Throw in a couple of screening units and massed reaction. If Dart or an oniwaban can easy rush a unit without having to work its way through unfavourable AROs then its not the "imitations on lt options" Most if the time you can get by with 2 basic LI. 1 HI or you have veteran/coc to cushion the obvious lt. You bury them behind b2 aros. Flashpulses shotguns warcors mines. Carefully positioned TO and basic links.
Spanish PanO forum. Change to Seraph was rumored to be in newest interview with Guntier (again done in Spanish).
I don't see how 30 points for 3 Orders and Lt protection is a massive investment. And quite frankly there is nothing you can do to protect your Lt from a 17 Order fueled tag team of Achilles, Dart and potentially 6-4 C+/Superjumping Krakots. No matter what, if there is a singular target I can and will smash a gap through about any defense with that. Smoke, Cautious Move, Move-Move in Marker State etc. You do not have to deal with every ARO. Don't get me wrong I'm bringing something that can smash through any ARO with PanO or Aleph every single game, but thw truth is I'm not gonna bother duking it out with B2 Flashpulse Bots and risk a crit if I can sneak past at 0 risk to reach a priority target, even at higher Order expenditure. Reliability and redundancy are king for me, offense and defense alike.
Yeah so theres not much to say, youve made up your mind mate. Lets just say i fundamentally disagree. You can deal with such rushes if you are deployed properly. And you can kill them in their turn even. Active is king but its not a stick your head between your legs situation if you position properly.
No matter which side of the "obvious solo Lt's are vulnerable" argument you come down on (and I think @daboarder is downplaying the threat, especially given his own experience with Caledonia, but I digress) I think we can all agree that having no option for a cheap LI Lt in the army at all is a bit of a shitter. We'll be looking at, what, 35-ish points minimum for our Lt? That's a fair cost, especially as it doesn't have any offensive potential (because, no CoC). If you're pretending that's not a disadvantage the, mate, you're dreaming.
