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Military Orders Rework?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Palomides, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. vicen85

    vicen85 Well-Known Member

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    Seems mine:

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    now if only the teuton could do that :/
     
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  3. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    My point is that you run the risk of trading pieces. Bringing a link is going a completely different direction from what was originally being discussed as the Teuton charging into CC. Going after something in suppression fire mean potentially eating up to 3 hits with a damage 13 weapon in most cases. Toss in mine coverage and that potentially 4 hits putting the Teuton down. Even taking the most likely outcome of two hits that's still a high likelyhood of trading the knight for a skirmisher that will be fewer points if you berserk. If you just go at it ftf then it really depends if you rolled well enough to push success out of reach. There are a multitude of problems that Teutonic knights have because it is a basic HI given berserk, some CC stat and expected to do well. The realities of the situations it will find itself in make other options highly advantageous at surviving and completing its task. It will always have problems doing its task and competing with other options accomplishing the task at hand.
     
  4. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    Well deserved at that.

    Can you explain was the last clause is meant to say? We seem to have a little trouble figuring out what you were talking about here:
    "tambien insinua que los papis caballero enlanzan con los peques"
     
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  5. vicen85

    vicen85 Well-Known Member

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    First, sorry for my English.

    HellLois said something about Father-Kinght. He did not give details but hinted that Father-Kinght could do Fireteam with the "children" or "small one".
     
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  6. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    The MO rework summed up:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. TaHu

    TaHu Well-Known Member

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    Been using Santiago+Magisters since hsn3, so nothing changes for me. With each update I care less about Varuna and want to play MO again.
     
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  8. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Thats not quite true. Your link of choice is now EVEN BETTER. The spitfire counts as a specialist and the KHD has tinbots for your link.
     
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  9. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, never said anything about it running alone, take another look at the thread. The re-addition of it being in a link is exciting, particularly if that includes other cheap bodies like Magisters or OS. That INCLUDES bringing the link into CC, for +1B per body.

    Really depends. I think doing Assault/Berzerk into suppression is likely a loser, at that point I'd be all about shooting, but even then I think it depends on what else you do.

    Right, but that applies to just about any HI you care to mention, charging into an enemy model in suppression is going to be bad news for all of them. The odds are going to fluctuate a bit depending on CC and ARM, but it's a bad idea.

    You left out cheap, and seem to dismiss HI like it's not valuable in other circumstances than CC. It's still a W2, ARM3, BTS6, BS14 HI armed with a combi rifle for 36 pts. It's going to be able to out shoot most models as well.

    Most of those other options are more expensive. Joan is a good example, at CC23, ARM5, but she's also 14 more points, she should have slightly better odds of living. Honestly, I think a lot of this comes down to comparing things in a vacuum, and ignoring the points cost. When you do that the most expensive options ALWAYS seem better, because 1 v 1 they are. :)

    Anyway, I think this is going in a circle. I'm very interested to see what other changes they might have made to the profile, but I think if it drops a couple of pts I will be using the EXP in a Haris or Core link team as a CC specialist, with anti-TAG capabilities.
     
  10. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    None of these are Teuton problems though.
    Current Teutons can't link and are stuck with AP CCWs if they want a proper gun which makes them terrible.

    Looking at Montesa, Hospitaler and Santiago - all of them have DA CCWs and got a slight discount for some reason I can't triangulate yet. So we might be looking at Teutons having at least DA CCWs as well, which helps a lot already. Weird enough, now that the other knights can hit stuff hard by default the Teuton's role as a CC improvement is already in question.
    However their Fireteam options will be different, apparently they'll be able to Haris with Magisters. Considering the extensive changes for Santiagos and Montesas, I'd wait and see how they turn out. Berserk in itself is rather neat, especially for a Fireteam where one model with the option gives you B2-5 DAM15-18 Berserk with DA CCWs. That's enough to give a Haris with one Teuton enough punch to reliably oneshot Achilles from full wounds straight to dead in a trade against your Teuton. Mind you you can make that a FTF and there might be a way to keep the EXP CCW on them.
    A Berserk DA CCW is a true CC deterrent against anything competent in CC. With the Montesa being downgraded to PH and BS13 and the stealth rebate for the others, we might simply be looking at a simply cheaper Teuton with free DA CCW and Linkability. With Santiagos having Wildcard, no matter what, Teuton Links will have access to Hacking Defense and Specialists.
    That should be enough to make them worth taking.



    And the Magisters can reform the Link on their own for good measure.
     
  11. Narkano

    Narkano Armed Shiba-Inu

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    To chime in on Tiks being added in MO, besides preserving the Tik & Uhlan box (the most likely reason) I wouldn’t be surprised if they had been adopted by the order of Montesa since the Church establishment might short change them on Seraphs since they are somewhat of an upstart order. Or if the Teutons started supplementing their Seraphs with a more dedicated jungle fighting TAG considering their big thing is fighting in jungles. Either way, the chassis might looks different but you can still put a FK in the control pod back at base.

    As for Dart...she and Joan are BFFs?
     
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  12. Dealan79

    Dealan79 Active Member

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    There's an explanation for the Montesa price going down. Now, whenever one is fielded, we'll need to deal with the inevitable Knightriders jokes. It's a quality of life discount.
     
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  13. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Dart's from PanO, and it makes sense from her to be at the front line hunting the CA in whatever force she can.
     
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  14. Palomides

    Palomides Well-Known Member

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    It would seem that the Father Knight linking with children would mean other knights, right? He's a "Father" Knight instead of a "Child" Knight?

    FK wildcard would be especially interesting, I think. But I don't know where he'll be optimal to play. He's probably supposed to be the MO answer to Aquila / Swiss Guard, but even in powered up links he doesn't feel quite on their level.
     
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  15. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Maybe it's a tease of Silhouette 1 remote squires like the Tactical Puppets!

    I'm kidding of course, but that would be a hilarious Fireteam.
     
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  16. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    However, the rest of the Knights are also ordained "Fathers", so that might be odd. More likely a Fireteam with the Order Sergeants, who aren't ordained, and are typically referred to as "Brothers".
     
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  17. Palomides

    Palomides Well-Known Member

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    I agree in terms of fluff, but purely by the (English) name this seems to be the easiest pun. No idea how well it translates, however.

    In gameplay, I don't know how much either link really helps the FK. I suppose putting the ML FK in a defensive link of OS is pretty strong, but it's also quite expensive. The Spitfire becomes stronger, helping the OS specialists advance to the objectives. But the extra cost over the MSV2 Spitfire OS or a Santiago Wild Card Knight again puts the FK in a weird place.
     
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  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I expect the Father Knight to be linkable with the Order Sergeants as the 'kids'. Traditionally, Catholic priests called their parishoners 'my child', not sure if the ones in the NeoVatican do.

    The other knights, being at least partially monastic orders, would be Brothers (example: Brother Cadfael).


    Even if you do end up in a piece trade, that's only about a 10pt swing in the skirmisher's favor (Guilang would be a 5-8pt trade). Not ideal, of course, but sometimes taking an order out of the opponents pool (or more likely, taking a model out of suppression fire to take more orders out of the opponents pool) is worth losing an order yourself.
     
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  19. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    For me Natural Born Warrior suits human fighters who are exactly that, literally the top end of natural talent for extreme hand to hand violence combined with vast amounts of experience and physical combat. They run on pure instinct, just simply stronger, faster and more dangerous than anyone can get with mere training and conditioning.

    Natural Born Warrior says to me that fighting this person is more like fighting a wild predator than a human. I kind of like that it's actually pretty limited outside characters and those with enhanced physical capability like Wulvers, Chimeras and Lhosts.
     
  20. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Anyone else notice that Pano now has a good CC unit with a safe method to get into CC? The Santiago KHD using Cybermask to sneak into CC and use surprise attack. Your garanteed to hit and with MA1 your opponent is at -9 mod. Oh and a DA weapon means your likely killing a 1 wound model.

    PanoCanIntoCC? O.o
     
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