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Military Orders Rework?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Palomides, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. Palomides

    Palomides Well-Known Member

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    So we now know that, due to the new box, "Military Orders will be revised and will receive small changes to their profiles, and new options for linked teams that will make this box a perfect fit." Any ideas what this will look like?

    Based on the box contents, I expect Specialist Sergeants to finally work with regular Order Sergeants (and possibly receive a slight discount?). That could be one of the new options. But I don't really know what other changes might be anticipated with this box. Give me your wild speculation!
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    My guesses/hopes:

    All Sarges be linkable except Auxbot and Infiltrators

    Wildcard FK

    New Montesa profiles with bikes

    Someone gets a KHD, hopefully a Knight, wishfully De Fersen

    Haris for Teutons and Santiagos, but not Hospitallers.
     
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  3. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure KHD would solve De Fersen’s problem. He still would be an easy target for any KHD, mostly because burst differences, and superior programs like maestro.

    The 300 box is not yet 300 pts, and the promo text says that will be solved, so there should be some price reductions, or different, cheaper loadouts.

    Some wishful thinking:
    Fireteams everywhere, there’s not much sense that some knights are linkable, others aren’t.

    Father knights, magisters should be wildcards. Maybe even sepulcher knights, both because they are all coming from all the orders.

    Special fireteams with OS and knights.

    Specialist sergeants being linkable, that rule that they are not is way outdated.

    Fixing the orders. Teutons, sepulchers, some extra loadout to others as well.

    More HMG, more interesting weapons, more specialists. KHD.
     
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  4. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    Order sgts might drop a point. They might be fixing more than just combi+ls and giving a discount to other short range combos. Maybe some other jiggery with the points system. I doubt that the box is going to present a non hospitalier link. I've said my piece in the mega thread about Pano's problems about what each knightly order needs and what I think could be appropriate. The introduction of wildcard to the father knight would be interesting to Order Sargent links providing a rock some backup and getting some use out of the non specialist profiles
     
  5. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    At this point I think nothing would fix De Fersen in the eyes of some people, as they see being both hacker and HI only as a liability. I wish he would be an even better hacker, underlining his Templar background, but that's pure wishlisting.

    So while we're purely wishlisting:
    • Teutons and Santiago Haris.
    • Special Haris of one Hospitaller/Teuton/Santiago/Sepulchre/F-K and two Magisters.
    • Montesa bikers keeping Duo.
    • F-K Wildcard.
    • All OS linkable, aside from TO or Auxbot ones.
    • Some remotes (Pathfinder, Mulebot) allowed into links.
    • F-K weapon loadouts overhaul. No more Combis. Number 2 would work well on him, too.
    • Sepulchre getting some Multi weapon (Rifle or Marksman Rifle) in place of its Combi. It could also use some Command&Control skills, like CoC, Strategos, or Advanced Command.
    • KHD for OS and/or De Fersen (AHD+KHD?). I think it'd work for Teutons, too.
    • Speaking of Teutons: remaking them into a proper HI warband. DTWs (Heavy Flamethrower), shotguns (Vulcan :3), Eclipse Grenades, EXP CCWs all around.
     
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  6. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    Imo Teutons should get combi+lf and mk 12 in addition to Vulcan shottys
     
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  7. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    I think mk12 is not a good weapon, because of the B3. Molotok or red fury maybe.
     
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  8. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why people say you can't do a 300 pts list with the box :

    [​IMG] Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SPEC. SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher + AUXBOT_1 / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 37)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Combi Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 41)
    [​IMG] CRUSADER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 49)
    [​IMG] BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)

    4 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Ok crusader should be multi ... Who care ? It's not even real proxy as it's the right miniature.


    I can't wait to know what is the teuton rework (I hope they get reworked ...).
    And FK wildcard would really make him shine. A doctor profile would be nice too ... But that would strip hospitalier out of one of they specificity.

    KHD ? That would strip the faction out of one of its inintend weakness.

    And I really want to see this knight on a bike. I wonder how they can make it not look like a space marine / custodes.
     
  9. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well problem with "upgrading" Fersen is a fact that if you buff his hacking even a tad bit you will quickly get into Asura territory (and mayby even doing things better than Asura).
     
  10. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    So?

    Imo De Fersen doesn’t need better hacking, just better protection against KHD.
     
  11. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Because all previous boxes were hard WYSIWIG ?


    So lack of:
    - Haris
    - KHD (in HI faction ^^)
    - WB
    - Smoke
    - almost non existing hacking game

    What MO gets for all those "limitations" ?
     
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  12. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    As in old forums: main problems de Fersen has comes from the utterior balance between AHD-KHD and not de Fersen profile himself (or how efficient and cheap some crazy KHD mosters are -> see Bit&Kiss ^^)
     
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  13. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    Teuton do-overs are practically required at this point, but I wonder if they'd be a better option for wildcard, and have FKs count as order sergeants for fireteams? That way they both have a spot to fill without stepping on other units toes.

    The lack of a KHD isn't so much an intended sectorial weakness imo, especially not when the game(or ITS at least) is leaning towards allowing mercs more often. I think it's just a reflection of the age of the current list.

    Knights on bikes are going to be compared to geedubs poster boys whatever CB do, but personally I hope they come in a two pack with optional helmets and heads that look like Ron Pearlman and Charlie Hunnam...
     
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  14. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    not to sound like an echo but knight Harris options are the obvious fix.

    OS should probably drop 1 point. and actually be linkable. Lack of KHD doesn't bother me so much. It kind of feels like faction weakness.

    Maybe overhaul Santiagos? Give them something that really sets them aside like msv2. Sepulchre should just get a little cheaper, and Tetons needs a rework entirely.
     
  15. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Santiagos doesn't need overhaul, really. Hospitallers win mostly because of linkable HMG and Doctor. With Nanopulsers, E/M Grenades and Spitfire Santiagos are actually better suited for CQB, than Hospitallers. Haris would do wonders for them, as would getting an Eclipse source in the sectorial, to make leaving DZ easier. Other possible changes for them would include getting that linkable Engineer, and maybe D-Charges on current loadouts.
     
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  16. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    eeehhhh. I've never been a fan of Santiagos and I don't think a Harris sets them too far apart from hospitallers. imo, the whole "choose your order of knights" should just go away too
     
  17. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    This.

    And confrere is not a word.
     
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  18. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    -Warband and smoke are usual pano limitations.
    -Haris will probably be included in the rework.
    - No hacking game ? No TO hacking game maybe but with de Fersen, father knight and usual remotes to increase network you get some nice hackingtools.

    And I think KHD are overrated by most people in this forum. What is your KHD going to do against HI link ? Part of reason why I won an interplanetario (except dice luck) is also because I faced almost no AHD. Everybody is so afraid of KHD that they don't dare to bring one, leaving the field open for HI link .

    Don't misunderstand. I will play the khd if available. But I think it will take some flavor out of the faction.

    What you get in MO : probably the best HI link options in the game, some of the best TO troops with total AVA.

    To keep the secto identity they will / should probably focus on more options among these strenghs and not try to change it.

    One more idea : increase Sepulchre holo to lvl 3 and have it FT duo with father knight a la Achilles / Patrocle (and fix holo lvl 3 rules in the process)
     
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  19. Musterkrux

    Musterkrux Well-Known Member

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    Cynical me thinks that we're going to see 1-2 models have points adjustments to cram the MO box into 300 points, throw in the Montessa Bikr and call it a good well done.

    Just like most other tweaks, CB gonna keep this very light tough, if you ask me.
     
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  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well lack of Fugazi hurts, also MO cheerleader cost you (compared to NCA or ASA) an Pathfinder drone as soon as you take 5 of them. Lack of camo KHD also means that even when went up-field with your repeaters you cannot decide to attack enemy hackers under camo, but they can just wait till their turn.

    Also:
    1) de Fersen is tad bit expensive (not saying bad just expensive) and he will fold against any ~20pts KHD skirmisher
    2) even though de Fersen has Trinity, he still doesn't have KHD so it means you cannot punish enemy who drops repeaters left and right as you will still suffer "firewall" mods


    Well I don't think that FK+KotHS DUO for 100pts would be any good in any shape of their current profiles. In contrary to Achilles+buddy KotHS do not win firefights "hard" enough to justify so expensive investment (and if flanked Achilles at least still has ODD while KotHS/FK just rolls on ARM ;/ ).

    Holo in MO is in strange place as it's really hard to pull off any kind of surprises ;/ (oh so it's not FK Spitfire or Santiago Spitfire but a KotHS Spitfire ? why should I be scared ?)
    Example of great Holo play is actually current OSS, as Sforza can really hide as a Shukra, Posthuman (to hide presence of Mk 2), Asura or other units. And he has "good enough BS" while sporting really hard hitting weapons (viral) and occasional anti TAG gun (ADHL).


    I really don't want all factions to be homogeneous, factional weaknesses&strengths are reallly good for players/game but imho MO is a little bit more on "weaknesses" side than "strengths" (Hosp+Mag link excluded as you know better than probably anyone).