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Military Orders. A word of hope.

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Daireann, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Yeah how could I possibly get out of my DZ with tools such as a BS 17 B2 ML, BS 17 B5 spitfire and or coordinated panzerfuasts+ML options, oh that I do with my LT order.

    Good thing ive got the option for 2 impersonator HI....
     
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  2. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    One thing I will say is that Gabriel De Fersen is BACK BABY. With KHD's heavily nerfed in N4, the biggest threat is coordinated hacking but frankly, most armys are not so effective at hacking to go for that consistently outside nomads. And having De Fersen in a link with a Santiago KHD is looking real good.
     
    #202 Death, Sep 29, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  3. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I don't think MO lieutenants are really exposed to Impersonators. If you don't take the Teuton lt, any other lieutenant choice is good enough to make the attacker wondering if it worths the effort. And the KoJ is a lieutenant very hard to kill, even for Al Djabel. With Black Friars and Trinitarians Minelayers, you have everything you need to get your lieutenant safe from assassination (excepted by speculative GL but this is common to a lot of armies).

    I don't think you should say that from Daboarder. This guy has won at least a satellite 2 years ago and ranked 4 with MO last year on a second one. But I can see that you don't like the list. Most of players don't because MO is nothing near standard PanO listbuilding in so many little spots (while still being very PanO in its heart).
     
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  4. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I know the way people write stuff can be annoying, but I think what people are saying in a too aggressive way is that they don't understand how your able to get out of your DZ with MO. I think it would be a great idea for you to write a guide on how to break out of your DZ without HMGs.
     
  5. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Oh yeah! Tried him twice and he did an excellent job. Isolating an Avatar while nearly impervious to Nourkias KHD is really something to like.
     
  6. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Sierras are quite cheap and they do a lot of good work most of the time. This and using terrain is what you need. But if your table is just composed of three high buildings, then you'll need some tricks like coordinated panzerfausts. But they don't work very well against an Avatar, sadly.
     
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  7. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    An avatar shouldnt be able to keep you in your DZ under those circumstances. Either its close enough that your B5 spitfire ect options are viable, or its beyond 14 and shooting b1, addmitedly b1 exp with ODD, but then, it doesnt want to eat b2 bs16 panzerfausts either....
     
  8. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Santiago + Magister knights + KoJ ML seems such a stable for N4 MO. Lacking HMGs, you've got to rely on ML and panzers to punch through AROs. And most armies don't put up a bunch of ARO vs Pano because they know we're only great at one thing and that shooting.
     
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  9. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Maybe, but I don't feel very confident about this. The Spitfire shooting on 11s and hoping the Avatar is going to get a lot of 1 and 2 on its armor rolls isn't something I feel confident about. Forcing it to retreat with the KoJ ML in core is an option in like more, but I also think that I should bring a Tik in one of my lists now, just because it is so good at dealing with armor at long range.
     
  10. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    The MO TIK with AP HMG solves the TAGs only weakness, dealing with other TAGs. It gives MO one of the best TAGs in the game. Some would say THE best because of how cheap it is. It might be a good idea for MO players to have one knight link list and one TAG lists for tournaments.

    As for list ideas, Daboarder has inspired me on how to make MO lists. I've got this Idea I need to try out.

    Zw9taWxpdGFyeS1vcmRlcnMBIIEsAQEKAAYBAwAABgEHAAAbAQIAAC8BAQAAhdEBAQAAhfcBBAAAhfcBBAAAFAEEAAARAQEAADIBAgA=
     

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  11. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Oh i wouldnt feel great about it either, but the option exists and if your other plays fail (AD MA dcharges and the linked ML) its an option
     
  12. Goorie

    Goorie Active Member

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    Question: Isn't that Magister/Magister/KoJ haris ilegal? Or it is not a haris?
     
  13. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Its santiago, santiago, magister, magister, KoJ

    Santiagos and KoJ are wildcards in a tueton link (magisters are tuetons for link teams)
     
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  14. SpectralOwl

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    Magisters have their own Core now as well, no Tueton technicalities required!
     
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  15. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Good to know
     
  16. Goorie

    Goorie Active Member

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    Okay I though it was duo + defensive haris. My bad :)
     
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  17. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Core, thats where the b2 bs17 arm5/8 ML comes from
     
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  18. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    MO certainly has something going for them now.
    Looking at tournament play for a bit the playing field just got a bunch of tools to defend against same as we did.

    Ariadna Camo spam wasn't hurt, on the contrary it's one of the only styles of N3 defense that went largely untouched (sans Chasseur Sixth Sense heck yes), still needs as many Orders as you can and likely a Sensor just for that. We're stuck with the Pathfinder here, but at least we get Shotgun DTW Intuitive attacks.

    There's 4 things in HD with a Template ARO now accessible to... PanO, NCA, Haqq, HB, YJ, WB, CA, Onyx, Shas (might have forgotten a couple Mercs or something). The new Dodge helps here, but it's still nasty and you usually lose a guy or two on top of the Order and the Link bonus.

    AD (DZ) has been added on several things as well. Getting shot in the back from anywhere you can't cover with your 10 (or less if one of them is HD or AD) dudes is gonna be a problem. Having a Marker, HD Sniper or a TR bot designated to watch mostly for that kind of thing when playing the matchups that can pull it off looks to be an important option to have available in tournament play.
    On top of that other people's regular AD can drop wherever they want as well. If it's a problem for other people that our Santiagos can AD it is a problem for us that they could AD 2 Tigers or something with 11(15-2forAD-2forCT) Orders between them.

    Offense doesn't seem to be a problem anywhere. Defense is what a list needs to do well now. Protecting your Specialists and LT from getting assassinated while retaining the ability to push up the board. Keeping the other guy's Assault pieces locked down with so he can't just circumvent your main ARO piece and picks you apart from an angle you couldn't defend. The dirt cheap and excellent Trinitary MSR looks very important to fill that role.

    Hacking is more dangerous too, Isolation was bad before the Program had Breaker and Upgrades for +1B in several places, Carbonite as a follow up against the -9 to Reset means Hackers can permanently affect HI and TAGs with the same States as E/M. New Firewall helps, Engineer looking busier than ever anyway.

    Baseline CC went up anything MA2 in N3 got a free +3 and possibly a pip of CC on top. Berserk can no longer be used in CC or in ARO. Mostly good for us since Knights were stuck on MA2 for the most part.

    Shotgun ITWs were supremely deadly and efficient in aggressive HI Links, but at the same time HI DTWs are very nice defensive additions, the only one we had prior to that was Joan and Santiagos. Since ITWs were also very good against MO Links and screw with SMGs I think we're coming out on top of that one having them on Magisters and BSGs.


    Not looking good for Limited insertion MO gotta be honest.
    However we can build 15 Order lists that can deal with all or most of that reasonably well.
     
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  19. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    By that point its a Magisters Core, they have on on their own.

    How would you support a Hospitaller/Konstantinos Haris? forward deployment Haris? I have a trouble filling the rest of my list.
     
  20. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Wait, do we got intuitive trait on shotguns? Their profile lacks the ability to shoot intuitive attacks.