1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Mercs getting to be too much?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Space Ranger, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    1,307
    I've previously run an entire imperial service list based on Mercs, basically bank rolled by the Hsien Lt (a speculo agent) in charge as an deniable black ops team
     
    theradrussian and Space Ranger like this.
  2. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    2,247
    Likes Received:
    1,712
    I've done similar just for the fun of it. Pushing the thought of them as cops on the chase of criminals. I actually used it in a tournament and did ok.

    Imperial Service
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    MIRANDA ASHCROFT Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (0 | 24)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    SFORZA Viral Rifle + Adhesive Launcher, Nanopulser / Heavy Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)
    MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    KǍNRÈN Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 29)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1
    CELESTIAL GUARD Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    CELESTIAL GUARD Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19)
    CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
    CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  3. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,896
    Likes Received:
    1,628
    Supposedly, SoF Extra is there to make such a scenario. But for some reason mercs are also being added to default armies. Not all of them, but quite many.
     
  4. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    459
    Here is the perfect solution for people offended on some level by mercenaries.

    Don't use them.

    If you feel "compelled" to play with them, then that's on you. If you don't then I applaud you for the courage of your convictions.

    This thread really boils down to a bunch of Negative Play Experience flag waving. Look, I get it. Some people don't like the mercenaries from head canon, some don't like it because they are obsessed with "the play experience", some have other reasons or a mix of them or whatever. But I hope we can step back and see what we are really doing is telling other people how to play. We are passing judgement on how they play and what they play with.

    Which is [censored].
     
  5. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,896
    Likes Received:
    1,628
    We aren't telling people how to play. CB does. But game is played by 2 players and the opinion that what's going in the game affects both players also has some merit, I believe.
     
  6. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    459
    Except this thread appears to me to be a call to change the existing format. I'm hardly one to be thrilled with CB's every decision but this one isn't theirs. It's ours.
     
  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    2,247
    Likes Received:
    1,712
    I agree with you in part. True, you can just not play it. I’m not suggesting people don't. But something just seems wrong when I look at Army (Yu Jing in particular) and half of my LI is mercenaries. I also agree with @Barrough . Also, isn’t the point of this place is to suggest out to play? Why even put a list here if you are not intersted in asking “how to play?” Why ask if so-in-so figure is good or not? It’s kind of the point.


    [​IMG]

    So you have never suggested something be changed? Said something sucks or is great? Why are we even here then?
     
  8. Ayaxs

    Ayaxs Crane agent, Yuandun division.
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    217
    This works as expected, remember outrage? that was a wholle mission done by mercenaries under a PanO CO.

    When we get mercs LTs in vanilla we might have a problem.
     
    Papa Bey likes this.
  9. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,896
    Likes Received:
    1,628
    That's not quite the same as telling people how to play, legality of their way be damned.

    Still, the crux stays the same in my eyes, what you bring to the table affects both players, and the opinion that something should not be there is as good as the one suggesting it should. From here it's a matter of how to upset less people, I guess.
     
    oldGregg and Berjiz like this.
  10. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    459
    Absolutely.

    Keep in mind the usual reaction of these forums to any change. Every FAQ issued. Exrah. Whatever weird ass minutiae is in the rules forum this hour. No one likes being on the wrong end.
     
  11. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    2,247
    Likes Received:
    1,712
    With that, I need to say Exrah Mercs now! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
    Section9 and Abrilete like this.
  12. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    2,668
    Pretty similar?
    - Armand le Fuet has 2 Wounds (way more resilient and anti-shock), while the Intruder only 1. Also, Armand is easier to heal with a Medikit.
    - Armand has ODD (on its first wound), while the Intruder has Camo (ergo, Marker State and Surprise Shot).
    - Armand has MSV1 in one profile, while the Intruder has MSV2 in all its profiles (Smoke combo).
    - The Intruder has a wide range of weapons available (and also Specialist and Lt. options), while Armand only carries the Sniper Rifle.

    I'd say they are very different troopers.
     
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,034
    Likes Received:
    9,463
    It could be that BS14+ means having bleeding-edge predictive rangefinders like a TrackingPoint. That's a $10+k rifle+scope+custom ammo combo, when an M4 costs about $1.5k between rifle and EOTech/ACOG (edit: and most of that is the EOTech, not the rifle!)



    Exrah Mercs NOW!!!! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
    #33 Section9, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
    Space Ranger likes this.
  14. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2018
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    342
    Doesn't make it any better:
    @a: So he is even better than the Intruder
    @b: ODD gives -6 and Camo+surpise shot gives ... -6, so comparable
    @c: the only real difference
    @d: So only the Intruder Sniper is comparable to the Sniper Armand ... that's your point?

    I am not saying that Armand is bad or anything, I just want to say that overall the usefullness of Mercs accross factions is not equal but skewed. There are factions that almost don't profit from Mercs, like Nomads or Haqq and there are factions that profit pretty much from Mercs cause they lack some of the toolboxes, like PanO.

    And that's whats annoying me.
     
  15. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    2,668
    @b is not comparable at all, because one gives you Marker State, and that is very important when it comes to deciding when to engage, while also hiding information about what's behind the Camo Marker.
     
  16. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2018
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    342
    And still they are both taken for the same role. While other factions might take Armand, while playing Nomads, I have never thought of taking him. And that's just my argument. That for some factions Mercs are mostly useless, while other Factions benefit pretty much from them.

    To correct this, some BS 14+ Mercs would be needed. They would be pretty useless for PanO, Aleph or CA, but Nomads, Haqq and Ariadna would maybe take them.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  17. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,385
    Likes Received:
    1,892
    This isn't what is meant by "negative play experience". Let's not dilute the term so much that it becomes useless. A negative play experience refers to designs that while balanced are either 1) incredibly boring/mindless to play (if Fatality was balanced, for example, it would still fit in this category because it rewards bad play just as much as good play), 2)make the most ideal strategy one that is also "bad sportsmanship" (such as lists with so many orders they are impossible to play in a reasonable amount of time), or 3) mechanics that make the game feel negative even when winning (it's hard to come up with examples of this in Infinity, but have you ever just crit someone off the table in Turn 1? That would fall under this category).

    Play experience is about mechanics, not anyone's head canon. Let's please use that term responsibly.
     
  18. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,385
    Likes Received:
    1,892
    Re:Armand, I've literally never seen anyone field him in two years of play in 4 different metas (one of which is one of the biggest in the Dire States) so I don't think he can really be that competitive. The other thing is that comparing him to an Intruder is probably not a good argument since he's only comparable to the Sniper (which does get taken, just not nearly as often as the HMG) and doesn't have marker state.

    Even in Tohaa where he could get a mate (even before the mate changes) I literally never saw anyone field him. Ever. Anytime I consider him I have to ask why I'm not taking a Sukeul missile/Gao-Rael and an extra order, or two Clipso BSGs instead.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  19. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    I bring him in DBS lists about maybe 5-10% of my total games across factions. Not my favorite way to play Druze, but he can do work.

    EDIT: From chatting with other players on forum/discord, I can think of at least 2-3 others that use him from time to time.
     
  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,034
    Likes Received:
    9,463
    Didn't crit poor Josh off the table, but did Rambo him off the table in N1/N2 with a Cutter (IIRC). Killed 8/10 models, then got greedy and tried for his Szallie.

    Felt really bad about it too. Felt 'didn't use a TAG for months afterwards' bad about it.
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.