I'm a bit late to crits debate, are we sure that new crit mechanic could possible mean 2 wounds or you just have to pass two roll for a single wound similar to fire ammo?
To answer the first part: no, we're not sure. For now it could go either way. But i'm confused how is it similar to the Fire ammo? For Fire each single roll can cause a wound.
Maybe the additional die is just to roll ARM and if you fail either of them you lose still 1 W ? So roll an additional dice (so 2 dices) and if you fail either/both you lose 1W ? So like "pseudo DA".
That's how that read to me from the beginning. Two tests for one possible result (loss of 1W). Leaves design space for all other types of ammo.
Yes, I worded poorly, forget about fire. Two armor saves for 1 wound or possible 2 wounds...so it's not clear atm.
2 wounds from one crit sounds even nastier than before, especially for high cost 1W units. Intruder comes to mind...
Yeah, if it's two tests and either can cause a wound, it's beyond stupid. If it's just two chances for a single wound instead of a single chance like in a normal hit, then it's excellent.
Bostria on CodeOne (which will likely, but not guaranteed, carry over to N4): "it becomes two impacts" and on 2 wound units or 1 wound + NWI units being able to get shot down in one crit "that's a very good observation you came up with there" So, what was communicated is clear; one crit has the potential to cause two points of damage.
I really like the two potential wounds. Your still up from before since you can now not die from a crit. But taking one is still a serious matter and your likely to fail one of them on low armor infantry. And he might just bite it too. It also leaves exposed HI feeling a little less impervious. In cover they have pretty good odds of ignoring the crit but flanked they 'can' get one shot. (In short they made ARM much more relevant but still kept crits leathal and threatening) But the two saves for one wound is alright with me too. Perhaps shock ammo will change to only effect crits and make both saves wound cause. Also a direction Fatality L2 could go
That's pure bullshit then. Awful, awful design. Two hits for two possible wounds and still automatically wins FtF?! Crits became even more powerful, wtf.
2 rolls is potentially more effective than one guaranteed wound, but remember that against an ARM 0 target in cover the odds of zero wounds is the same as the odds of two wounds on a DAM13 crit. In the normal circumstances of the game, crits are less deadly. They're more punishing to cheaper units than expensive ones, which is definitely good.
No, they're extremely more punishing to more expensive units that paid for NWI, Dogged, Symbiont Armour, Regeneration, etc - they still have a high chance to go directly to a null state they can't get out of. Which was not the case in normal crits. And the idea that a crit still autowins FtF on top of all that is just bonkers. You basically get two old crits in place of one, unless you're something with considerable ARM/BTS. I hope that the noises on the Spanish side of the Forum about how the N4 is "still in the oven" are true and this can be fixed. Crits need to either be two chances to lose 1W (instead of two chances to lose up to 2W) and / or need to stop being an autowin. That autowin part is just nonsense anyway, another non-interaction.
Kinda. More punishing to 47 points of Shinobu, less punishing to 33 points of Mormaers. Less punishing to 29 points of Ninja, more punishing to 30 points of Myrmidon Officer. Less punishing to 5 points of Shaolin, more punishing to 5 points of Kuang Shi. It's all about the relevant ARM/BTS value as well as Dogged/NWI/2W, not to mention that it's more punishing to units you can and want to Doctor than those you don't care about, and not really about the price, after all.
I like the two saves - two potential wound decision on the crit remake. It is in line with CB's style of removing uncontestable situations (re: Symbiomates, which admittedly were OP, but still they gave an uncontestable result). It also brings up the payout of having armor (which you paid a lot of pts for). As for lethality - it is roughly the same, every second roll is a wound, with every fourth either 0 or 2 wounds, for an average of 1 wound per crit (actual percentage may be more or less, depending on damage and armor).
Against light units: let's be honest, the risk of getting wounded twice wouldn't be that high, and for most units operating in the midfield it doesn't matter much if they get unconscious or dead; most of the time they wouldn't get healed back up anyway. But such a change would immediately affect the value of all skills and equipment that interacts with Unconscious state; Dogged, NWI, Automedikit, Regeneration, Spawn-Embryo, Symbiont, etc. All would get less useful, and potentially less expensive. It'd also affect the value of partial cover; Non-Impetous units would get buffed when compared to Impetous ones, and activating Frenzy would be a bigger nerf than now (the cover value will change regardless of how many wounds new crits could cause). This means that TAGs and HIs will benefit the most from the new system, 1W units with Dogged/NWI/Automedikit/Regen/Symbiont would get a moderate hit, and the biggest relative nerf would go to Impetous units with Dogged, like Kuang Shi, Ghazi, and other 5-10 pts Warbands and friends. And as long as the middle part of this will get balanced by other changes and recosting, I'm ok with that. It'll make expensive, armored units more valuable, while reducing the ability of warbands to punch high above their own cost level.
Overall I think the crit change is phenomenal and elegant for all the reasons @Stiopa mentioned. Furthermore, it will be pretty easy to remember and teach.
No, do the math. For every time they overpunish one of these units, they are more likely to significantly underpunish one. Take your normal ARM2 Symbiont Trooper. For every time he takes 2 wounds in cover due to a DAM13 crit (16% of failing both saves), he will shrug off the crit more often (36% of passing both saves). This has huge implications for units like the Sukeul who have significant benefits in their Symbiont state that they lose when they lose their armor (Mimetism on the Sukeul, ability to turn on Stratuscloud on the Draal, Holoprojector and Superjump on the Kotail, minor skills on a few others). And let's face it, I'm also a Tohaa player (though primarily in the form of their sad little brother, Spiral Corps), and Symbiont Armor is grossly undercosted.
Well, gonna trust your mathfinity. Gotta say if symbiomate stays as is, the ARM9 seems a great anti-crit this way.
