Indeed, CB was not allowing people to buy addons without a base pledge. But, when they went from developing their own pledge manager to using a third party site, they chose Gamefound to use as a pledge manager. Gamefound.com doesn't have a system that can require you to select a base pledge before add-ons, so if you went there and put it in the cart, you could check out. I imagine shipping would still be full shipping. As I said, another kickstarter I looked at on there (since I backed Etherfields and another) had a statement that "if you don't pick a base pledge we will manually cancel your order and refund your payment", but CB didn't.
aaaaahhhhh thanks for the explanation! I actually find that kind of interesting and would love to hear from someone who actually did this (if someone actually did this) Though i would imagine paying full shipping it's definitely not worth it. lol
I hope on reading this that CB doesn't realize that's how it supposed to work and go back and "fix" things. :p
From the kickstarter comments: "Are we sure that if we backed at €1 we can’t just choose addons? Cos there doesn’t seem to be anything stopping me from adding the outcasts expansion without a core game" Belen replied: "Hi! Gamefound don't allow us to force a backer to catch a pledge :(" (and then Nuada replied, but his doesn't count. :) So they did know it was possible, but didn't seem to be aware they could just cancel & refund such orders. Or, maybe decided it was too much trouble. Seems a bit dumb on Gamefounds part to not have this basic Kickstarter functionality in their system as they're trying to expand as an option vs Backerkit or CrowdOx or whatever, but not really my problem. The kickstarter was an amusing mishmash of Infinity Players confused by Kickstarter, and Kickstarter patrons confused by Infinity. I wonder how many Infinity players have since backed other kickstarters and how many people were exposed to Infinity and started buying after Defiance.
You don't seem to know what Kickstarter is supposed to be used for. Hint: it's not a preorder page for you to get exclusive things
I don't concern myself with what you seem to think Kickstarter is "supposed to" be used for. I see what it is being used for and that's exactly that - delivering exclusive content to people who are willing to shell out money ahead of time. If the good will of doing exactly that and crediting the company with our money to make the project happen is not given appropriate respect and instead, like in case of many other Kickstarters in the past, people start seeing the same items in retail months prior to the backers even getting hands on theirs, then appropriate feedback needs to be provided. In this case sulfur and hellfire.
Hehehe, "I don't care about what anything was DESIGNED to do, I care about what it CAN do." Gene Kranz, Apollo 13 movie. KS will have to impose limitations to stick to the original spirit... nah, just keep on cashing in. Painter-only slice of the market had to find a "solution" for the game (sell? eat the extra cost? gift? ...), or piggyback on someone's pledge.
Not to kick a hornet’s nest, just honestly wondering...did you stop to consider the possibility that you might be so attached to your personal definition of what KS is used for that you’re missing the evidence hinting that it’s used other ways too, and that maybe it’s structurally better suited to other usage models? Because that second part of your quote that I emphasized is a pretty good summary of what other KS usage models look like. And yes, sometimes those happen accidentally, or the project advertises one way and then pivots or even turns into vaporware—but those are also inherent risks of the platform, not aberrations. Note this official KS post from 2012, when they introduced the whole “Risks and Challenges” thing. They explicitly want users (that means us) to think of the platform as anything but a retail store/retail pre-order system. The fact that there are users who take the view you do, especially when they’re really vocal, actually serves to create an incentive for project teams to talk a good game about the whole exclusive early access premium angle, even if that approach is a terrible fit for their team, their project, or even the platform itself. I get where you’re coming from, it’s just that your own commentary looks to me like a blind spot and based on your usual post style I thought you might want to consider that possibility. It could also make dealing with the, uhhhh...vagaries and quirks...so common to crowdfunded projects less stressful for you to tolerate? Maybe I’m off base, it just seemed worth bringing up.
FWIW, I definitely backed a game in 2016 and juuuust got it shipped to me in late January. So I’ve had to get used to a relaxed, low-stress set of expectations for Kickstarter projects, of necessity.
I believe I asked that question and when Belen replied it was clear that it was not what they wanted and as such rather than add the outcasts without a game pledge I asked a friend to add an extra outcasts to their pledge. Net effect was the same really, but they had said that you could have multiple of an add on.
Naw, man. I've taken part in RPG rulebook kickstarters (Werewolf the Apocalypse 20th Anniversary) directly, as well as several large board game releases indirectly (via sb else's account, because we were splitting items in a pledge). Each time this happened, it was utterly infuriating when the game makers produced a quantity of the game and sent it off to retail and backers at the same time. Logistics channels peculiarities causing people picking up the stuff you waited years for in retail on day one of release and you being forced to wait even longer a total kick in the nuts. 3rd in Top3 of largest Kickstarters ever is Kingdom Death, the epitome of "it's all exclusive miniatures and all years late on end".
The issue is that you're lumping a lot of different plans into one thing based on end results. CMON and others just use it as a preorder system. (If you don't back the kickstarter, the product will still be made and released at that time.) Others use it as a way to fund the project because they don't have the resources to pay for it up front. Especially RPG books, which have issues with distribution. (If enough don't back the project, it won't be made, at least in that version.) Others use it as a way to gauge the interest in a product. (I think this is Defiance. They could afford to make it, but it's a huge risk, so to see how many of the "I'd buy a dozen if they made it" crowd are actually going to buy it, you can pay ahead of time and fund the project.) There are plenty of companies that use Kickstarter like etsy, sort of. And of course there're mixes of the above. Kingdom Death also (IMO) highlights another issue with Kickstarter funding. Getting all the money ahead of time, with no firm deadline, can result in situations where you need more money to complete a project. So, KDM products keep getting delayed, so they can make other products (and keep sculptors and such employed) and pay the bills. Some of the larger kickstarter companies are paying to finish their other project with the funding of a new project, which can quickly lead to a death spiral if one fails. Like some companies have a funding goal that is not their real goal, so they can hit $100k real quick and show they're viable in the hopes of rolling it into their real goal of $300k. If they see they'll only hit $250k, they'll end it early so they don't have to deliver at a loss. By Contrast, SHEOL set their goal at $300k from the start and is not even halfway yet. One element you did miss in your mini-rant about being cheated by same-day releases, was shipping. People backing Frosthaven for a discount, I wonder if they factored in that they're paying shipping. A lot of discount sellers (like Gamenerdz) include shipping. If you bought Gloomhaven through the Frosthaven kickstarter it was $100+ Shipping, a great discount off of retail+shipping, but Gamenerdz is like $97 with free shipping... Anyway, we've probably drifted a bit off of the May release schedule, but I guess the thread isn't much else now since it's all commonly known.
Kingdom Death is hardly exclusive miniatures. You can order basically everything the Kickstarter shipped already right now from the store. It is more preorder category. The years late part is totally true though (which i personally don't mind because they upgraded shit i payed 20 bucks for to stuff that is now basically a full additional base game with no further cost to me) Dark Souls was a weird one though. They shipped expansion packs out you couldn't use yet because the board tiles needed for them came months later. (Thankfully i didn't back that myself)
No, you can't. There are tons and tons of limited run KD miniatures. https://kingdomdeath.fandom.com/wiki/Limited_Releases
@Nuada Airgetlam First of some of the stuff on that "limited release list" is actually in the base game. Maybe it was a limited release in the past? Second none of these go exclusively through kickstarter. Kingdom Death limited releases are handled by the normal Kingdom death store. Yes stuff is sometimes sold out but nothing is "kickstarter only." It is a kindom death not a kickstarter thing.
As I mentioned before, KDM is so far behind that they need to find interim products to keep some of their staff busy. So most of those mini's aren't even included in the kickstarter I believe. I don't recall if kickstarters get first shot at them. They are Exclusives, but not Kickstarter Exclusives. Maybe the conversation shifted, but probably best to keep the terms separate. Heck, it actually ties back into the Defiance issue of "what if Agnes comes out in a retail variation before the kickstarter version".
NGL, I wanted the minis, but I backed for the game. My group, we loves us some coop dungeon crawls, so it is a 100% chance that we'll play Defiance. I see no point in buying a game, for whatever other reasons, that I won't use. Kickstarter just laid off a huge amount of staff: Overall something like 40%. Ouch.
