CA is just as bad with the new Morats. Disagree about the others. But yeah, it wouldn't have been so bad if they already didn't have a lot and then got more. BTW please note I was wrong. Nomads didn't get updates two years in a row. They got Corregidor in 2021. So two updates in 3 years. Close enough.
I at least can't comment as much on CA, as I very rarely get to play against them (though Shas became popular locally just as I stopped playing in COVID), but they and ALEPH tend to generate much less frustration than Nomads even though they are more powerful as factions. Remember that many of the most active members of this forum use factions that have a very poor matchup against prevailing Nomad builds too, and the absurd amount of focus the faction has received from CB in recent times also draws eyes towards Nomads. ALEPH in particular has almost every choice in the game, but CB has done a fairly solid job with their design and ensured that practically every Trooper also has an inflated cost, requiring careful list-building and play to avoid trades that are almost always uneven. Andromeda is dreadful to play against though, and ALEPH benefit more than most from the unending waves of Mercs that CB keep releasing every time they have to hawk a convention or a side game due to more cheap units inherently filling in their weakness. CA actually does get a solid amount of hate, since it's effectively ALEPH with a bunch of extra tools exclusive to them plus affordable Warbands covering their biggest weakness. I actually do envy that, and I'd like to see some Voodootech make its way to PanO- it would finally give a bit more character to the neglected non-Knight parts of the faction, and differentiate it from the other baseline factions in Nomads and Yu Jing. As far as balance goes, cut down on generic REM AVA, bloat the Ikadron by 3-4pts and remove the Imetron and CA is pretty much in line with everyone else. O12 is interesting, PanO's community initially despised it since many of its units are just PanO staples with better optimisation, but as its shortcomings became apparent (and non-MO PanO players started disappearing en masse or just playing O12 themselves) it found a fair degree of acceptance. Personally I recommend it to newer players without reservation; its profiles tend to do one obvious thing very well, there aren't as many poor choices and it has a good spread of tools. O12's lack of redundancy is quite easy to exploit for an experienced player, and they don't do any one thing so well that it creates gear checks in the way that many other factions do.
You’re kidding aren’t you? No… You literally must be trolling from the get go. 6 points impetuous (that can become regular!) with smoke, with metachemistry, Martial art, template weapon and Assault pistol… How much do you want pay for it? 2 points? Incredible Excuse me? Again. Trolling here. They are ABOVE Panoceania thanks to their ultra flexible pure fireteams. They don’t. 1 model, 1 in one sectorial has a launcher. And anyway that’s not the point. Troll No it’s not. Shas doesn’t have NCO. So you see, you must literally be trolling. Furthermore they have good NCO. Starmada: they have crap NCO forcing to take Strategos. Since anyway you’re in such a bad faith, I’m not going to counter such bad answers. Because no Number 2 is NOT a common skill, plenty of sectorials don’t have it. And what makes me laugh to tears is when you “PaNO hAs AccESs to smoke” when one unit in one OOP sectorial has a LAUNCHER on a synced bot. But for nomads “noooooo only one unit has MSV2 so it doesn’t count”. Double standards. As usual. pitchers. Not all faction have them. Shas has none. All PanO except SAA (OOP) has none. And even less linkable pitchers. not all factions have good infiltrators. Winterfor and NCA above all. And certainly not a lot have such GOOD infiltrators And this last paragraph is the most upsetting part of your answer (taking into account that all of your prior answers where already pretty eyebrowsing. Just to prove a point you are taking a combination of ultra rare exotic elements, or elements only 1 faction across the entire game has access to. If we take PanO the list will go on and on about what they don’t have access that all other factions have access to. And I’m Ok with that! But don’t say Nomads don’t have access to almost everything Why didn’t you mention “they don’t have dazers, tricore and pherroware”? Nomads weaboos are incredible. And I have Bakunin myself! But I’m not a Weeboo… I can see through the fanboyism and bullshit about this faction somebody at CB must be in love with. Because no one across the entire game has such a disproportionate answer to everything while not having a single weakness (anymore). Because “not having a Camo tag” isn’t a weakness. This is borderline irritating, and you (nomads weaboos) look like a spoiled rich kid throwing a tantrum: “buhuhuuuu I have all the toys in the entire game but I don’t have the wooden stick that poor homeless kid there has. So no! I don’t have access to everything!” So when somebody says something about access to stuff, better to keep low profile rather than going up the wall crying “noooo that’s not true, nomads don’t have access to plenty of things”
You should. I stopped playing Bakunin with the release because I felt I was playing a sectorial that had its strengths: - mimetism -6 on a pure core - msv1 high dodge units - insane warbands - multi purpose core with pitchers, hd+, doc, hmg, spitfire, mimetism -6, msr But it had its weaknesses - awful lieutenant options - very expensive Moira core - no paras - somehow limited midfield options - no cheerleaders to keep super core cheap but now all of that has gone. while list building is super fun, the new Bakunin have no more these very explicit weaknesses. They have become a simply way better MO No fun. I prefer playing MO and having to deal with their weaknesses. Makes the game funnier. But that’s a personal opinion
Ah, ye olden days... I've said it before, I'll say it again: I don't take well to change. But then again, change is a fact of reality, without it, we'd be doomed to stagnation. For me, CB does an OK job. Not a very good one, but neither a bad one. Good enough by my standards. Compared to the shenanigans a WH40K player told me exist in that game (eg. being able to win a game by walkover, through preventing the opponent to deploy on the table at all...), I think we are in a good place. I get my game of Infinity mostly every week or every other week. I'm having fun playing. It ain't much. But it's enough.
Agree with everything here. However as I main PanO I immediately hopped in O12. As you mention, they feel like “more tooled PanO”, but aren’t as optimised as Nomads are, which make it feel as a fun faction. The last update of Starmada also make them feel quite interesting to play (before that Starmada was too limited in what they could do), with more flexibility, yet, without, as you perfectly state, “being able to do one (or several) things way better than others” They are able to do everything, a bit like Nomads do, but without ultra optimised troopers / links. Which gives a sense of enjoyment while playing with them. I think it’s a great faction, well balanced, and CB did a very god job them! I just hope to see soon an additional sectorial covering the units Starmada doesn’t have. Just so to give the choice of being able to play a Sectorial with Lynx, Razors, Omega, Gangbusters but maybe without Betas, Bronzes, Nyokkas
Damn, i first wanted to ay, it´s a bit unfair to mention the amount of nomads release in a time where Bakunin gets a revamp, but even with the COMPLETE Bakunin-releases put out of the calculation, its still more modells than everyone elses so I gonna drop that point =) one could argue, that we finally got modells for already released profiles, but i realy don´t want to start THIS discussion. *sigh*.... damn i hate starting up with that, but i cannot read that and just let it stay like that... YES. PanO has, based on statline alone, the best shooters in the game. There is not much to argue about. There are no other units with BS15, combined with either Mimetism-6, or MSV3, armed with a HMG or ML. This 2 units can, in a Vacuum where just standing and shooting exists, outtrade every unit in the game. I think we all can agree on that point? fine. BUT This units do not exist in a vacuum. The are part of an army, and they have to handle with not just one but a combination of enemys and skills and equiptment. And there are PLENTY of units than can compete with everything the BS15 PanO shooters try to throw at them; Is it (pure) fireteams, the higher flexibility of a unit or the option to not just shoot, but do a lot of other things aswell. The new released Moiras can generate a Pure link to access BS15 on mime-6. With kusanagi a BS17 unit (so to speak). MSV2 units and smoke to counter Swissguard/Cutter, White noice to counter Aquila. And i dont even have to build some fancy shit list to have access to this things, cause this units can easy fit in my army, mostly are auto includes for me. Aquila? Swissguard? Cutter? That´s a PanO-Army centerpice, a huge chunk of points. In the bakunin-example a HD+ is something i can easily include to the "shooters", meaning i can field a link that counters both of PanO´s supreme shooters. Yes, you are right. PanO has the best shooters. Compared in a 1on1 situation in a vacuum. aaaaaaaactually, since we are comparing Sectorials: SSS does not have smoke. IA has no smoke Onyx lacks smoke Foreign Company also has no access to smoke Keraiil are the only Smoke option for SC and tohaa (to be fair: the later has eclipse on Makauls, sooo....) Celestials are the only option for ISS to get a Smoke launcher (also here: it is a regulary used unit, because Kuang shi exists) yesssss, but..... It´s not about the sheer existence of an HMG, it is also which unit does carry it. There are sectorials out there, where you have to shoehorn the HMG-unit in and force it to work (spoiler alert: non of the nomads faction have this problem, for they have HMG access on a lot units across every pointrange), for example Steel phallanx with Agamemnomnom (TAG) or Hoplite (great modell, but at the end of the day a dumb BS13 HMG plattform that does not realy fit in with most of the units, which is something worth mentioning in a sectorial with unlimited acss to fireteams.) Military order needs to field either Hospitaller (which mostly calls for a link) or KothS/seraph, which are seriouse investments. To be fair, the Tikbalang is a very solid plattform, but still, quite expensive. I hope i could make my point clear. Please don´t get me wrong: I like that there are differences in the accessability to certain options. But again, as someone playing quite a lot different factions: That´s a problem i am not confronted with when building a nomad-list. Same point here. Yes, you are correct. A lot of Factions have access to pitchers. PanO has not (well, SAA has. One on an Aleph Merc...) YJ has none. Ariadna....well.. lets skip that one.... O12 has the Cyberghost, a single unlinkable unit Nomads have more access to pitchers than nearly all others combined, and with the exception of mary problems they are all linkable and in variouse pointranges, from dirt cheap moderators to X-viser linkable Tsyklons and Custodiers/HollowMen... this seems to be the so called "passion" @Space Ranger mentioned. I don´t know if I would call myself a weaboo. Maybe. I love playing nomads, they are my formost beloved faction of all, due to gamestyle and fluff and miniature design (followed closely by Knights. because... well...i don´t have to explain). I can see the issue a lot of people have with nomads. They HAVE access to a awful lot stuff (can u imagine that back in the days CJC had no access to smoke? Than Lupe happened, and shortly after Jaguars where a thing...). CJC also lacked HD+. Then Defiance happened. Long time Nomads did not have NCO. => Gator. You fear Impersinator cause hiding your is are the only obviouse weakness, here, have some Biometrics (lets not start discussing how useful they are, but nomads got the intentional counter to ltn-sniping with Imp) *sigh* It´s so hard argue against that, cause I, as a nomad player, are not blind to that. Maybe i dont overdramatize it way some others do, but each time I build a list with anything else than nomads I come to a point where I struggle and think "with nomads I would just add X". Maybe one point of mine is that i avoid playing what is so-called meta. It bores me. And even THEN Nomads are a tough competition for most of my adversaries. O12 seems to get lot cool stuff latle. Luckily they are not painted red, so the danger is not that obviouse And thats the secret plan of the glorious nomad nation: assimilate and absorb. sorry for the long post.... I hope i did not hit someones spot with it edit.: i wholeheartidly agree with that. As long as i (and the people i play with) have fun with the game, I am fine with what CB does. There are points I would change, but I am not in the position to do so and it´s not my company I have to keep alive. Oh boy, you have no idea.... It´s over 8 years since I turned my back on everything this company did and i still remember stories that overshadows everything what is repeatetly mentioned in this forum as a sacrileg by CB by far. to be fair, GW changed to the better from wht i hear from their playerbase.
Please let's not actually start this debate again here, but I would be remiss not to point out the big CA Aspects and the most elite ALEPH Aspects, which do have this capability. From the perspective of someone who's been playing Infinity for a few years and just picked up Warhammer 40K last month, Infinity is almost certainly still better value for money, but if you're willing to shell out for the gigantic cost of entry Games Workshop actually seem to be doing a better job of maintaining their game lately- their quarterly balance passes, with a single updated sheet containing all tournament balance adjustment, seems to be keeping the tournament scene exciting while they continue to support more narrative or casual play with proper rules support. Being able to make the most of a "living rulebook" is a big deal for them, considering the actual rulebooks are nearly as porous as CB's on occasion (the Valkyrie aircraft was released without the rule that made it actually play like a plane!); it wouldn't be half as balanced as it is if everything was left as initially published.
*shakes fist angrily* dammit anubis! Long post with a coherent and thought out argument. How dare you! Just kidding. Some really good points you’ve made here. The one I’d most like to talk with you about quickly (I’m in work) is the PanO shooting point. You are correct that a lot of factions can outshoot or equal PanO in shooting these days, hell, I’ve done it with my haqqi. The outshooting or equalling is likely where the salt is coming from as PanO was the premier shooting faction and it was difficult to deal with them in this regard. Don’t get me wrong I think they still are some of, if not the, best shots. But this is only my take on them. From my experiences and gaming group perspective PanO is still very versatile with some incredible shooting ability but to others… perhaps not. As you mentioned, they can be outdone in this area more easily than ever before so I do get the annoyance some people may feel at other factions being able to do what PanO claims to be best at, especially after looking extensively through the army builder this week. A lot of decent shooters in other factions now. Oh well. I still love my boys and girls in blue though, they look stunning whilst shooting or being shot and I enjoy playing them. You have no idea of the horrors that have reared their heads recently… the gaming groups are as toxic as ever over there and GW seem to actively support scalpers now. You’re right though, some of the nicest things that happened in that community make the worst things on CB look saintly by comparison… but I digress. Same energy. Pretty much how I feel too most of the time. Enough gets me by and means I’m relatively content. @anubis, thanks for the in detail post! Some interesting stuff to go over. Edit: just a quick query, to get the thread mildly back on topic; any further news of the releases next month? Anything about my boy Ajax? I know he’s more likely a later year release but I can hope.
Aaaaah damn, yep. forgot about those ye, thats one point... I did not safe a kidney to get my hands on a tik to now throw it into nottinghams bottomless throat. Also i still cannot help myself for them deleting first both of my favourite factions in two different systems and then deleting one of the systems completly. that is nothing new, but that are people in general. And this is, as everywhere, a loud minority. At least i experienced it that way. Unfortunatly this loud minority made a not so small part of the local torunament community, so that was one more reason that did not keep me with this special company (in addition to a lot of other stuff) I am so excited how he will turn out. I love the old modell, but he does not look as intimidating big as he did back in the days, when his scale was equal to the others. The actual myrmidon looks immpressivly bigger than the old ones.
Love everything about this post. It's so much on point without the "drama / salt / passion" of my posts When I speak about Nomads weaboos, I don't speak about all Nomads players, I speak about people that incorrectly disregard the fact they have an answer to almost everything if not absolutely everything, and that if one sectorial / faction is unable to or has very strong difficulty in dealing with something (like PanO with a linked Suryat. My most feared unit basically...) it's "git gud / deal with it", it's the player's fault and not CB fault for not adressing some specific balance elements. But let's be clear, I'm not jealous about Nomads flexibility (as mentionned, as soon as Bakunin became so optimized I ditched them).
No, I am not, and I do not really appreciate been called a troll every time someone does not want to hear the things they want to hear, the fact you set up to a conclusion and just try to justify it makes it difficult to debate the whole subject. Do Nomads have tools? yes, they do, do Nomads have tools other factions have? yes, they do, Do Nomads have all the tools all factions have in spades optimized and cheap? No, they really do not in fact in some sectorials they are really not optimized. What I see is the same situation as Lobos everybody screamed for a month and then the only mention is they are trash, and I have seen it so many times in so many factions and sectorials when they are introduced and I expect it to be the same as it always is the same, the new sectorial will come out will be played and its shortcomings will become obvious, units everybody freak about will see rare and specialized usage only and the circle will continue in the next sectorial. In fact Nomads should be the ones complaining that their one unique item, the hacking Device plus, has been proliferated to so many factions... Regardless because as @anubis said nothing exists in vacuum I do not see Nomads getting more releases or a preferential treatment, it is something everybody gets when its their faction and specifically sectorial release time, I waited for Tunguska troops and sectorial till the tail end of N3 and after the initial bonanza of releases the next release Tunguska specifically got is a limited release better sculpt of Maria Problematica, likewise Bakunin is now getting new sculpts after so much time getting nothing and there are other factions that will get many releases when their spotlight comes, I do understand that Bakunin is the 3rd (or 4th) faction under the new release plan pioneered with MO and solidified by morats that frontloads essential releases and makes sure all units have at least one sculpt instead of spreading them more and it may seem more than it was in the past but it is a far better release plan. And as BS supremacy has been mentioned, yes Kusanagi can reach 17s basic Fusilier can reach 18s (a kamau sniper in a fusilier link can reach 17s have mimetism -3 and MSV2 at almost half the cost the Moira link with Kusanagi can get at its cheapest) and other links can reach such high BS scores all discussions about how Nomads can evade their way around it are tactical and situational, yes they can use white noise they can also fail to roll a successful WIP to do it, the HD+ might have already died for some reason ectr ectr, theoretically they can do it, the opponent can theoretically counter it and we are stuck in a limbo of discussion theoretical and trying to prove that one theory is more plausible than the other. Concluding, Yes Nomads have tools, good for them, other factions have tools, good for them, many factions share some tools and tactics, Nomads do not have all the tools and all the tactics, bakunin gets a revamp after all this time great for them, I do not play them, next faction to be on the spotlight will have a bonanza of releases great for them! Someday I will get a great Szally pilot model and she will be great and hopefully Interventors will also get a resculpt someday!
just want to clarify this, cause i may got misinterpreted: The BS-baseline of a Kusanagi in a pure link is 17 before rangeband MOD. Fusiliers cannot hit that without additional MOD, a pure Fusilier-link starts on BS15, and then starts adding MODs. In +3 range Kusanagi is able to hit the nat 20s (and then comes Cover, mime, and so on....) it hurts to be remembered.... I am so tired of Asuras unable to cast White noice 4 times in a row on freckin WiP15. Its more easy for me to kill jazz through her own repeater with a Bandit instead of succeeding god damn unopposed WiP 15 checks...
If things would go not right... ... At least we have some good miniatures for Stargrave or Coriolis rpg (as I mentioned before). At least this. (so, there are still some perspectives)
So.. we are talking a mimimun of 131 points to have a Mim-6 BS17 B5 Spitfire ARM 3 with 1.5W main gunner who can also accomplish missions at WIP 14. With some extra points spend, upping it to 150 you can add a MSR and a hammer wielding doctor for your CC needs who happens to doctor at WIP 17. The 150 composition being: Kusanagi Spitfire Moira with MSR Mother Agatha Cenobite with Chain Rifle+1 Cenobite with Chain Rifle+1 It is good? It is bad? It is too expensive? I would let people discuss it.
Allow me please to apologize if it offended, which you are legit entitled to be. I was being surprised to see Morlocks being tagged as expensive :D
Whether or not you mean to be a troll, your forum wide constant inane arguments come across as trolling. People are actually giving you the benefit of the doubt there because the alternative is deciding that you're not trolling, merely stupid. Truth hurts.
