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Making the Hulang work

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Joametz, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. descrii

    descrii Well-Known Member

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    Eh, mostly just that the OP wanted to play with hulangs specifically, so I jotted the list down to use two of them. If one gets ganked in round 1, he can still play with hulangs like he wants.

    Sure, one yan huo would probably be fine. I took two for redundancy and coverage. The yan huos could be deployed up to 16" apart with different lines of fire around some intervening building so that it's harder to hide from them while still blocking the hulangs' advance. The doc and yaozao could be nearby to get them up if they're shot down. The link team mostly hunkers down and makes it difficult to outflank the yan huos with airborne troops or skirmishers, but can also do some late game objective grabbing.
     
  2. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    2 Hulang? I throw down 4 if I'm going second. Hell, sometimes even if I'm going first. Just move them all with coordinated orders.
     
  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That's a very old Infinity trick to do to Immobilized things. We always joked that the person slapping the D-charge on was setting it so that the victim could see the time counting down.



    Might as well throw all the dakka at someone. I admit, I'd been wondering how to use Hulang with the usual Zuyong Deathstar and was not picturing it. Seems like answer is, "you don't, you run Hulangs with Yan Huo instead!"
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    This is theory crafting, but last night I constricted this:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] The Hidden
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 44)
    [​IMG] ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    [​IMG] DĀOYĪNG (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Antipersonnel Mines / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] LIÚ XĪNG (Specialist Operative) MULTI Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 38)
    [​IMG] LIÚ XĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    [​IMG] DĀOYĪNG (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Antipersonnel Mines / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The idea is to use Daoying for suppression, if at all needed, and use Zhencha and Liu Xing for flanking with Hulang to clear out dug-in units. Speculative Fire on 9+ is... okay. Chose the Combi version for extra Discover chance, it might only be on 13 but a TO camo really doesn't want to get hit by it and might decide to face to face it.

    I'm a bit of two minds whether two Husong is a good idea. Changing one out for a Yisheng and 3 helpers for 'im might be better

    PSA: DON'T use the copy icon in Army app, it doesn't work well. Manually copy works better, but still not great.

    Edit: yeah, you can make a better list in vanilla with more variation replacing the Daoying snipers with Lunah and Guilang (though losing minelayer) with a Tiger instead of the BSG Louie freeing up points to upgrade the Chaiyi. But... that means you can't combo it with a TA fireteam as the other list.
     
    #24 Mahtamori, Dec 26, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
    Joametz likes this.
  5. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    One Hulang doesn't seem too much of a challenge but 2 is hard!

    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 44)
    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 44)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    DĀOYĪNG (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Antipersonnel Mines / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    ZHANSHI Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    SHÀNG JÍ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 39)
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)

    5.5 SWC | 297 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  6. st3ncil

    st3ncil Member

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    My 2cents:

    Hu
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    LIÚ XĪNG Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 39)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) 2 Submachine Gun, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 41)
    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) 2 Submachine Gun, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 41)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Mahtamori likes this.
  7. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    I really like the 44 pts profile theoretically, because it's better reactively and has a built-in attack vector against Camo... But what if you just spam visors to counter Camo? Maybe the 2 SMGs profile is the way to go there?

    [​IMG] Smoke crew and Hulang──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
    [​IMG] HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) 2 Submachine Gun, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    [​IMG] HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61)
    [​IMG] RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    [​IMG] LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    [​IMG] NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Edit: fixing the copy-paste wreck Mobile Army gave me, should've listened to @Mahtamori 's advice...
     
    #27 Joametz, Dec 27, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  8. MrMorphine482

    MrMorphine482 Well-Known Member

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    I know it's a movie about a Japanese scenario, but I do love the mental image of the Hulang standing in front of a Shang Ji or Zhencha, staring down a horde of infantry, and without looking back saying "Kill the ones that get past me."
     
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  9. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    The main problems concerning the hulangs are:
    • Their protection. It's a fairly expensive troop on midtable with mimetism as their main defese. It needs to be deployed on rooftops or inside buildings, and that's not enough against a lot of skirmishers or warbands. Minelayers, madtraps, and other skirmishers help a lot in this task
    • The advance, with mimetism and combi/SMG it'll have a lot of trouble advancing through the board. Specially against mid-long aro pieces.
    • The order cost. CC is one of the huge drawbacks of melee/speculative fire pieces.
    Once you see the profile It's obvious that it's profile is one of those backup plans. wait and see if the enemy aproaches and go melee/EM, or try a tool to hunt down skirmishers, deal with that midtable TAG... but not much more. And even for that, it will require some assistance. An aro piece cleanup, discover rolls, smoke, protection...

    It's not suited to be a spearhead. Trying to advance... even with B4 to +0 range and mimetism... it's gonna be hard

    I have mi deep concerns about it and how to make it work.

    A FT:DUO might be a way to use it aggressively, using one of them as catapult to melee, or kill in short range with the other. but it seems too expensive and the odds doesn't seem too profitable. A Haidao redfury seems the way of cheapen out that duo, but at the cost of loosing some degree of forward deployment. The shangji spitfire TS can be an option too, but at the cost of being as expensive as taking 2 hulangs+deployment/token

    Without duo, they need the kind protection and support that can only be provided in vanilla. Inside invincible you can try spotlightting or FO enemies but seems an order starving tactic. you can also provide firesupport cover to advance, or put them on supressive, but that's it

    The only minelayer being a Daoying sniper doesn't help much. Althoug it's a Forward deployment 1 mine
     
  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Shang Ji. It's given me an idea of doing a Hulang/Shang Ji duo. Especially with a Shang Ji with Tinbot. The tinbot gives the Hulang some hacking protection, moves the Shang Ji up with him and no matter the Hulang you have, you have the LFT of the Shang Ji.

    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 44)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 43)
     
  11. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Some of the things you mention are a bit easier in Vanilla than it is in IA. Right now everyone is just thinking of IA. But I think he can be awesome in Vanilla. In Vanilla he can be supported by Guilang, Liberto, Ninja (especially KHD), as mentioned above, the Kanren (again KHD), etc.
     
  12. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    I share your concerns and insight about the unit. It would be a lot more reliable with higher PH for the Engage.

    That said, he seems like quite a speed bump with that flamethrower, although an expensive one. You could make a Zhanshi Core link with a Haidao MSR to take out ARO pieces and then move him up the table for the offensive, or have that same Core defend a lane (with a SML in there as well) and put the Hulang LFT on another corridor next to a Zhencha (which is an amazing reactive piece, IMO) to make the opponent's advance more difficult. Do you think that's viable?


    That seems pretty sweet actually! What about a duo with the TA Spitfire Shang Ji? You get the SJ up the midfield using the Hualng as a spearhead, and then get him to shoot at the things holding it back with the Spitfire. After that you can maybe drop the duo, put the SJ in suppression and go further up with the shocktrooper. How about that?
     
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  13. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    Something like this:

    [​IMG] Hulang test #369──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 44)
    [​IMG] SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 45)
    [​IMG] HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    [​IMG] SON-BAE Yaókòng Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    [​IMG] ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    [​IMG] DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    [​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3
    [​IMG] CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] LIÚ XĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    [​IMG] WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Maybe drop the LX for another Zhencha and replace the Weibing for more cheap bots to move that guy, if you want.
     
  14. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Spitfire is a good idea too. Spitfire going against non-hacking armies and the Tinbot for hacking!
     
  15. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    Best hulang duo in my opinion is this:

    Hulang DUO
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]2
    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Dúo) Fusil Combi + Lanzallamas Ligero, Granadas E/M, Cargas-D / Pistola, Arma CC Monofilo, Cuchillo. (0 | 44)
    HǍIDÀO Red Fury / Pistola Breaker, Cuchillo. (1 | 29)

    1 CAP | 73 Puntos

    Abrir en Infinity Army

    Low-SWC, Low-cost, has almost the same impact as a shangji, BS13, with 1 less damage, 1 less armour and no Tactical sense for 16points 1SWC less. It's easier to fit inside the lists. Shang-ji alternative seems like a premium version.

    Also when triying solo hulang, any zencha will be it's best friend. Specially FO because they can mark enemies without response. If you try it from the back and outside ZC, No ARO, no guts, no facing. The hacker one it's better marking hidden enemies because it doesn't require LoS, and it can carbonite HIs (An INM-1 HI/TAG can't F2F against E/M grenades, CC or FLametrower). Alternatively the Liuxing hacker, or the daoying hacker can make the Job as well.
     
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  16. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    Those are some excellent points! That duo definitely seems viable and I hadn't thought about how the Zhencha's mobility allows him to mark things reliably. You'd be throwing E/M grenades on 18s (assuming you are inside the +3 range, but even if you're not that's a 12 to hit).

    The Daoying Lt. Hacker can use his Lt. Orders to attempt Spotlight against stuff out of LoS if you field a couple of repeaters as well.
     
  17. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Haidao RF does sound cool! I'll have to try that!
     
  18. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    [​IMG] Zhencha + Hulang Combo (?)──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]10
    [​IMG] ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    [​IMG] ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    [​IMG] HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) 2 Submachine Gun, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] HǍIDÀO Red Fury / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1 | 29)
    [​IMG] DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] ZÚYǑNG Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    [​IMG] SON-BAE Yaókòng Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Not really, the Haidao can be 8" away from the Hulang. FD2 is 8" ahead of the deployment zone, so the Haidao at the front edge of the DZ will let the Hulang use all 8" of FD2, without having the Haidao in a straight line behind the Hulang (it's about a 2" wide corridor, maybe 2.5")
     
  20. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    FO is considered a BS attack, IMO it would provoke change facing and guts roll.

    Good reply though.