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Making the Hulang work

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Joametz, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    Dear citizens of the State-Empire, having tried all the new troops released with our too-powerful-to-be-defeated sectorial, I admit to be completely biased towards the Hulang.

    Maybe it's the fluff, maybe it's the similarities with the recently gone Oniwaban and Shikami (model that I'm actually using to proxy the guy), maybe it's the fact I dream about it slicing TAGs in half like a dirty weeb... Whatever the reason, I want to make it work.

    During my few games through this first week of IA, I've felt like the Hulang is supposed to be played alongside something I'm not seeing. Or maybe in a way I can't yet comprehend. I mean, I know it can work in Vanilla with smoke coverage (if it weren't for a LI tournament we're holding next Saturday, where I will be bringing IA, I would be spamming this list like a madman...)

    Smoke bois and Hulang
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]4
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) 2 Submachine Gun, E/M Grenade, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 41)
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Use some impetuous smoke, move the stealthy-slicer up the field (taking advantage of FD2) and roast/EM/slice some enemies of the State-Empire. If anything stands in his way just take a moment to blew it up with the Visor Trinity:tm: (patent pending)...

    However, we don't have that option in IA. Even though we can use a linked long range gun (like the MSR on the Haidao) to take AROs out and then advance this mad dog to the backline, It sounds like a heavy investment... An investment that could just take the job in his own hands. Why not just use the link to take point? It's a viable strategy but the Hulang seems like a win-more piece in that situation, and I feel like a Zhencha or something like that could be better there. The list I used looked like this:

    Make way for the Dog
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) 2 Submachine Gun, E/M Grenade, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 41)
    TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenade / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I've wondered about it and the other option I came up with (yet to be tested) is to take advantage of it's Duo skill. What to duo with? Shang Ji:

    Dynamic duo?
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]2
    SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 45)
    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) 2 Submachine Gun, E/M Grenade, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 41)

    2 SWC | 86 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The plan here is simple: you move up the Shang Ji to the Hulang's position by using Tactical Awareness (while re-positioning the dog, maybe advancing using full cover) and then start moving out while engaging firefights with the more capable thooper (better BS, PH, ARM and mid-range gun).

    Is this also too much of an investment? I don't think so, specially taking into account the Shang Ji can Join any fireteam you have laying arround after.

    What do you guys think? If you think the trooper sucks, it's fine, I respect your opinion although I don't share it. The idea of this thread is to discuss ways to make it work, specifically in IA. So, please let's keep the ideas flowing towards that direction.

    Sorry for the long post and thanks for reading :blush:
    Cheers!
     
    SpectralOwl, Paegis and Deltervees like this.
  2. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    I can’t speak to the rest of your plan, but your wasting a command token in the current setup, as well as an order. Unless you want the Hulang to start in the midfield to onbstruct if you go second, it’d be more efficient to start him within coherency of your Shang ji.
     
  3. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    You do start within coherency, you just put the Hulang a little further back.
     
  4. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    The Hulang looks really fun, but it does seem like it was intended more as a gift for vanilla than IA. Actually finding some utility for the Shang Ji might be more of an indictment over the Hulang's place in IA than the value of either.
     
    Joametz likes this.
  5. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    It does seem like that might be the case, sadly. However, even if we don't take the Shang Ji Duo path, having one of them at the ready to take out high value targets after the gunners take ARO pieces out could be a-ok. I'm thinking about Rambo troopers behind total cover and link leaders.
     
  6. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Gotcha. I was confused when you said use the Shang-Ji’s Tac aware order to move up to the Hulang.
     
  7. Nathelis

    Nathelis happy Invincible Painter
    Warcor

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    Its also a mission specific model. Play the armory and you will love him :) I am sure there are a lot of setups that require his close and personal way of fighting. Don't count out the EM grenades. they are a toolbox and his ability to block the way in the midfield with smg in supression is quite good.
     
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  8. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    I'd add he is also terrain specific. Having a infinite tall building in the middle to hide behind helps much.
    He'll have a hard time actually going into CC in IA, because he's missing the smoke support and a marker state to run behind the enemy LoF.
    So he has to face tank one shot or a flamethrower before he swing his mono-sword. And I don't know if I want to risk a flamer against a 41 point model.
     
  9. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    How have people been going with them in vanilla?
    Sounds pretty fun, if the model is decent and with smoke and monks that will be fun.
     
  10. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member

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    In vanilla, I like them going in my aggressive secondary combat group. Play them as aggressive area-denial units that can do objectives and let them revel in the smoke support from CG and monks.

    They’re a dynamite SF profile, E/M grenades are fantastic anti-link gear, and stealth makes it great at navigating loaded mid fields. Like most non Camo models that mono CCW is a bit of a red herring, but luckily the cost of those isn’t egregious anymore. Nice for opportunistic attacks against hard targets it has E/M’d or that it can’t outshoot.
     
  11. Quickit

    Quickit Well-Known Member

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    I would like to try them with an FO, most likely the Zencha. Target a model with the FO, and start dropping E/M grenades on it from up to 16" away. As mentioned, with a blast radius, it's great if you can hit a link team or clustered models with the blast.

    As for CC, if the Mono isn't the right tool, don't forget you can use the D-charges in CC at -3. With CC 22 and MA3, you're still in a good place to win the roll, with crits at 18+. AP+EXP is frightening to basically everything.. Especially if you've hit it with an E/M before you slap the D-charge on.

    I'm super pumped to try them out, as a JSA player, I try to use CC as often as possible. This unit is solid even without the CC options. I'd lean more towards the Combi + LFT, as the LFT is a scary weapon against skirmishers, Camo markers, etc., which you'll run into more often with FD2.

    Being a generic button pusher on top of it all is the icing on the cake. Can't wait to see the model for it either!
     
    Mc_Clane and Space Ranger like this.
  12. descrii

    descrii Well-Known Member

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    I've been thinking of running them with yan huos - not as a link team, obviously, but the idea is to keep the enemy's head down with the yan huo to give the hulangs the run of the board. If enemies end the turn exposed for AROs, gun them down with yan huo firepower from across the board. If they button up, run hulangs around the corner and butcher them. After pressing whatever buttons need pressing, of course.

    Maybe something like this would be fun.

    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) 2 Submachine Gun, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 41)
    HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) 2 Submachine Gun, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 41)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    YĀN HUǑ (FTO) MULTI HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 53)
    YĀN HUǑ (FTO) 2 Missile Launchers / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 52)
    Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    ZHANSHI HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #12 descrii, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
    Section9 and Andre82 like this.
  13. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    Is the Haris team really worth the points here?
    I mean what is it really giving you here?
     
  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    +1 Burst for the Yan Huos.
     
  15. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    Well yes... but you can get the same Burst on the Yan Huos just by taking the tinbot C profile and now you can stick it wherever you like without breaking a link. This also frees up some points to wildcard out that 4man linkteam into a 5man.
     
  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The burst applies in the active turn as well, it's not just AROs. Not that I like that list particularly.
     
  17. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I think something I may try is having a Kanren disguise as a Hulang! Make him a target of a hacker and then, Surprise! Killer hack you in the face!
     
    Joametz and Section9 like this.
  18. smog

    smog Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    That’s a good theory that I’d like to try out. But wouldn’t it be adequate with a single Yan Huo? And what is the reasoning behind using two hulang?

    I spent a few minutes making a list with the same concept in mind. I went for the missile launcher Yan Huo because that’s the model I have.

    [​IMG] Invincible Army──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]10 [​IMG] DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)[​IMG] HÚLÁNG (Fireteam: Duo) 2 Submachine Gun, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 41)[​IMG] HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)[​IMG] ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)[​IMG] YĀN HUǑ (FTO) 2 Missile Launchers / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 52)[​IMG] PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)[​IMG] ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)[​IMG] Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)[​IMG] MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)[​IMG] YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)[​IMG] ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) 4.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
     
    #18 smog, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  19. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    I've done it a few times so far, and it works really well. The two support each other very well, with the opponent also having to wonder if what they're about to target is actually a real Hulang. It's a mutually beneficial relationship.
     
    #19 Weathercock, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I think that if they know that Vanilla is not supposed to have 2 Hulang, it can be worse than NOT knowing! It can throw them off even more because they need to think about which is which and make them second guess themselves..