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Making CA a threat in campaigns

Discussion in 'OOC' started by hortanium, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @Yasashii Fuyu Ah yes, and Ariadna won't attack Dai-Nippon, who it isn't under any treaty obligations to stay away from, why? It's another example of the hackneyed story of Uprising that sought to elevate JSA at the expense of Ariadna and especially Yu Jing.

    They should have just not had that location exist; there's no point in putting it into the campaign except to rub it in other factions' faces that the JSA has plot armor.
     
  2. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    Seriously Hecaton, calm down would you?

    We're talking about a fictional Storyline here, and you spit poison like your life depends on it.


    There's so many ways that a story could be spun that prevents Ariadna from trampeling JSA once this Krisis is over, diplomatic pressure from O-12 being the easiest one, It could even be something as nice as JSA offering Ariadna Space Technology (obviously in secret) in exchange for their protection/continued undisturbed existance.....I mean let's be real, the only reason why Ariadna even attacked is stupid "Dawn for the Dawnosaurus" mentality, it's not like they REALLY need that puny island.

    The coolest option would be to have JSA build a Shipyard on Dawn/Kurage Station to directly use their now protected ressources, and Ariadna just so happen to benefit from this by also gaining access to Space Technology n stuff....a cool Ariadna + JSA brotherhood could come forth from this, even if it didn't work out in the Campaign.

    Also keep in mind that Ariadna actually isn't as big as some seem to believe them to be. If JSA is seriously protected by its allies, Ariadna would be foolish to attack in earnest.

    All that Dawn for the Dawnosaurus aside, the only reason Ariadna still exists is because O-12 saved their asses.....so going directly against O-12's wishes and stomping JSA? Not that smart a move...

    Anyways, I just mentioned why I think this move was done, whether you like that reason I don't care much for. If you don't like Infinity's Storyline, go meet Gutier and tell him about it, cause he's the only one that can influence it for real.
     
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  3. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    My personal opinion is, that the plotarmor should save JSA from beeing wiped out by Yu Jing due to the hate from the YJ player on the decision from CB.
    But CB doesn't told us, why the made these decision, and perhaps they will never do.
     
  4. Foxep

    Foxep Tropical Vet
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    I just remembered who was the leading man when JSA attacked Lafayette FIRST. And who was the leading man when we said we should make an Ariadna+JSA Brotherhood and JSA said NO. Its just interesting that you now say this kind of things :thinking_face: But well, we had a fun campaign in the end, i dont mean to offend you, just to make those points clear.
     
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  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @Yasashii Fuyu It's worth noting that it was YJ who cast the deciding vote on recognizing Ariadna as a sovereign nation.

    A better question is why the story needs to have JSA make YJ out to be incompetent fools and now, in the Kurage storyline, make Ariadna out to be impotent in the face of Japanese territorial expansion? Why is it necessary to say "this faction is stronger, better, and more righteous than these others" when players are attached to the "ensemble cast" aspect of it?
     
    #25 Hecaton, Aug 6, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  6. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    *sigh* It's called in and out of Character....I have NOTHING against Ariadna out of Character, and if the overall Gutier Story wants to have JSA and Ariadna as best Bro's, that's totally fine with me.

    Besides you don't even KNOW who the leading people were behind the attack on Ariadna, and it was mainly due to Ariadna's own actions during the previous campaigns ;-) I was just the Spokesperson.

    Ariadna was frankly stupid in the campaign for asking JSA to ally with them against PanO, the only faction they can never betray from a fluff standpoint as they are the main supporter of their Uprising and supply many of their weapons (as seen on their skulpts).

    Naturally we had to ignore that offer as PanO's universal support of JSA in the whole galaxy is worth waaaay more than this little squabble on the island....something that Ariadna apparently never understood, and instead rather bubbled on with "get rid of your overlords" mentality as if binding contracts weren't a thing, and as if JSA hadn't done this deliberately...a bit more tactical fines and understanding of the JSA Situation could have lead to some way more interesting outcomes here....though in the end it did work out quite alright for Ariadna and Yu Jing anyways as numbers ended up on their side.

    But like I said, that doesn't mean that Gutier won't write something else in the official fluff, or something gets resolved afterwards. Luckily Gutier's Story isn't influenced by some of the commanders tactical decisions in this campaign, for good or for worse.


    Japanese Territorial Expansion? We are talking about a meaningless island that had belonged to Yu Jing since years already, the only difference it made to Ariadna was that unlike Yu Jing, JSA actually cared for the island and wouldn't be as easy to give it up as Yu Jing might have been.

    I frankly don't see much incompetence here. Ariadna got annoyed by the sudden burst of activity on the island and lashed out with some of their forces, and the combination of efforts from other factions kept them at bay. As I mentioned before, it's not like Ariadna is a big nation, so unless they wanted to go full on open war, they had no more of a chance than any other faction on the island, and if they did go open war, the consequences would have been dire for them.
     
    #26 Yasashii Fuyu, Aug 6, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
    nazroth, Foxep and melkiach like this.
  7. Sergej Faehrlich

    Sergej Faehrlich Well-Known Member
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    Two things here:

    1) Technically there only was a JSA specific mission(!!!). As BoW answered in some other thread you could report any battly at any location and make it score. It's just that nobody, or only very few people did that. There were only 2 reports at TSA without a NA2 opponent...and they were pretty shitty so I wouldn't wonder if they did not score. Still that location could have been taken without fighting JSA, so without any actual confirmation (I haven't reported a battle there) that only at that specific location people were nor allowed to report "custom mission", or that these results would not haven been counted at that specific location, I do not see any "plot armour". Maybe a form of "unfortunate information policy". To be fair: I really liked the idea of a faction specific mission...made for some nice incentive for JSA to put some points there.

    2) CA would have benefitted from a points boost just like Tohaa did. A faction specific mission might be a nice way to make them more of a thread. Having a mission in which one player has to be CA and which can be reported at any location...giving a point bonus of... let's say +1 to the winning faction. +2 would make things even more urgent if CA or their opponent could score 4 point in a regular battle, or probably up to 6 points with their special mission. This might give CA battles a feeling of importance and relevance, either for CA succeeding or their opponent from preventin a CA infestation/infiltration...especially if there is some objective like "have at least one surviving shasvastii or spawn-embryo on the field"...or anything that makes use of CA specific special rules. I can see huge potential in something like that.
     
  8. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    What we know and what we suspect are different things, for instance we know that the Tohaa got very upset about 10 days after we told them that we were going to hit pano last year (which meant that the objection came about 5 days after we actually hit them... ) and we suspect that one of them in particular harbours a grudge because of that.

    You could probably stand to stop calling us stupid though, and maybe recognise that there are three separate stories playing out here, the first one in importance is whatever Gutier decides happened, but after that we have the fluff and the game.
    The fluff is subjective and can be manipulated to support any viewpoint, but the game is a solid matter of fact.
    Your justification for sticking with pano is fluff, but the Tohaa justification for attacking Ariadna is from the game.
    This is the important part though: both are valid. Honestly if the JSA/NA2 had taken our offer this year would have been a complete wash for anyone who didn't fall in line with Ariadna, home turf if a huge advantage to hand to a mid sized faction, and if people aren't willing to attack the larger factions in coordination they will be the winners in every single campaign from here on, the trick will be to recognise who those factions are...
     
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  9. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    There was a fairly inconsequential 'plot armour' that was made insurmountable by the 'unfortunate information policy' in fact looking at the threads asking for clarification, even the NA2 commanders believed that they had 2 exclusive zones for the first week, and I've still not seen any hard answer as yet to whether or not playing custom missions on the exclusive zone would have counted...
     
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  10. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    I was not a huge fan of the JSA exclusive zone. It was too forced to provide a reason for why JSA would not lose control completely. The thing is though with the numbers NA2 had, they could have easily defended it. NA2 was the highest numbers next to Ariadna and threw their weight around.

    As for NA2 thinking they had two exclusive zones, honestly that is their own fault. While Carlos did say oh yes exclusive jsa zones! I didn't believe it and went by the rules book immediately and was wondering why so little was being done with the non-exclusive zone. If your met with two different statements, ALWAYS ere with caution and you will never be left high and dry.

    I think exclusive zones are an interesting device IF more zones existed. If a single zone out of 9 is exclusive to provide plot armor thats simply poor story telling and trying to weight the outcome that is preferred.
     
  11. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
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    A couple notes here. All the NA2 faction high commanders were Warcors, and all had agreed to adhere the I Play Fair rules, to do our best to not cheat. The rule PDF itself stated that BOTH territories were JSA exclusive, which was also said by Carlos, and we were also told that any factions that played in exclusive zones that weren’t JSA, would lose those battle reports. Check out the territory special rules section, not just the special scenario. We originally instructed all JSA players to defend the exclusive territories, while the rest focused on an attack.

    Regarding high numbers, we did have a ton of registrations, but not nearly the amount of active players.

    D74834C4-7EBD-48D8-91A6-6918C85C5F71.jpeg
     
    #31 TheDiceAbide, Aug 6, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  12. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    Oh that is interesting, I definitely read in my packet that Underwater Sensoring facilities was not exclusive, or at least it did not have the exclusive descriptor. In that case I will definitely retract my previous statement, and acknowledge that yes, the NA2 high commanders were given incorrect information.
     
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  13. hortanium

    hortanium Major Thomas Williams, USAriadna Marine Corps

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    @theGricks @TheDiceAbide The confusion arose because the rules packet was inconsistent. The beginning, as TheDiceAbide posted, said both areas were JSA exclusive. However, the actual MISSION pages only listed the Technical Support Area as exclusive, the Underwater Sensor Facility did not list it as JSA exclusive. Unfortunately, this confusion was not cleared up until week 2. The rules needed a bit more proofreading before they were published.
     
  14. Sergej Faehrlich

    Sergej Faehrlich Well-Known Member
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    To be honest, I have read that part of the PDF as well. In my reading the mission's text took precedence but I can see that this could have caused some confusion

    Did you contact CB directly for this info?
     
  15. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
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    Many people did, it took a week to get an official clarification, and by that time other factions had been building up reports to dump on it.

    It was our opinion that it was more likely that the Mission section of the PDF was most likely missing the text, rather than both the theater page plus what Carlos said in his Kurage video, being incorrect. It was further reinforced by the theater page not being just a copy-paste job, since Underwater Sensoring also included further special rules.

    My best guess is that they were both meant to be JSA only at one point in time, then it was changed before the campaign, after the Kurage video was recorded, but they missed taking it out of the notes about the Kurage Station theater.

    To address the OP's original question, I'm going to make CA a bigger threat in campaigns by playing CA in the next one. :D
     
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  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That's true for a lot of the Infinity rules themselves. How can players be expected to enjoy these campaigns when they don't even know what the rules are?
     
  17. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I see what you did there...
     
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  18. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    I actually would go as far as to think that both JSA Areas were meant to be JSA Exclusive all along, but once CB noticed that NA2 was ridiculously big in the beginning days for some reason, they quickly took the loophole of having accidentally made an error in the pdf, and quickly declared it an "errata" instead, thus stopping the NA2 Rampage from going out of control. (Cause let's face it, had the 2nd area remained JSA Exclusive, NA2 would now hold an Ariadna territory...or at least PanO would have been free to do as they please.)

    I'm not saying that would have been fair at all by the way, I think CB was frankly surprised by the big NA2 numbers and had expected them to be way weaker, thus giving them a safety net so as to not ruin their fluff.


    Sorry if "stupid" hurt your feelings, it just seemed the best choice of words for a plan that wasn't thought through thoroughly enough. I'm not saying you didn't have your reasons to do as you did, I'm just saying that way better agreements could have been made. Though obviously NA2 was quite cocky at this point as we had WAY more points than anyone else at this stage of the game :-P
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    NA-2 was not going to ally with Ariadna. Calling them stupid because other factions were hell-bent on picking a fight is just self-importance on your part.


    Even if NA-2 had a very small player population, the "exclusive location" benefit would have given them an unassailable location and thus a significant advantage. There should not be "exclusive locations" if they are meant to be in play in the campaign; CB has shown that they don't do the basic outcome testing to see if their campaign decisions actually will generate a good outcome.
     
  20. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    ?? you do know that an alliance is exactly what they offered NA2 when we attacked them right?