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MAF: Polishing the Turd

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by itsuncertainwho, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
    Warcor

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    I'd definately put the Yaogat in a tier above the Rodok for an Lt choice. Mimetism and superjump does have it's place but the added versatility of having an MSV Lt with an anti tank option absolutely pips it, I may not take any more yaogats in a list but I'll definately be taking a rodok somewhere else.

    As for the Raktorak NCO, it's on a shotgun you can use it to push a button or move your link team which are both good options the strategos order however can be used to do those things too but without the restrictions, the HMG in the link team acts rather than the shotgun, or your Raicho pulls back and drops a mine or enters suppression. The cherry on top is that the monkey himself is still a BS 14/CC 21 berserk killing machine ith a frenzy discount and no SWC, who's loss doesn't even really effect your force.
     
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  2. Razi

    Razi Well-Known Member

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    I think positioning the Yaogat to do some work is trickier than the Rodok. A burst 3 shotgun, 4 in a haris, can murder things the Yaogat would have trouble with. +6 in the right rangeband combined with Mimetism, no smoke setup required. I also like the versatility of the Rodok haris more. It has good specialist options which allows those two Raktoraks to be part of the core or duo with a Soggy.
     
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  3. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    Agreed. That MSV L2 is a good tool to have and the PanzerFuast can crack open a heavy armored unit.
     
  4. derbrizon

    derbrizon Well-Known Member

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    I take the yogurt lt regurlarly. Especially now that the sogorat profile that anybsane person wants is not an LT, and any Suryat any sane person wants is also not the LT.

    The changes even have me using the vanguard LT... Which is a ridiculously stupid fee to pay for an LT. The raktorak NCO makes it a not-stupid thing to do.

    Hell, raktorak NCO makes yogurt Harris a an awesome idea, too!
     
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  5. Lesh'

    Lesh' MAFter of Apes
    Warcor

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    Another game of Show of Force. I decided not to take a TAG, cause still can't figure out a good list that would work in our local meta. Played vs VIRD with this roster:

    Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    SURYAT (Tactical Awareness) HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 48)
    RAKTORAK (NCO) Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    MORAT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    MORAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    MORAT Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18)
    MORAT Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14)
    RODOK Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]2
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    RASYAT Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 28)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    You probably already figured it out from my previous posts, by suryat with vanguards is pure awesomeness. I think I need to finally give new Sogarat a try, but I have a fear that I won't like as much as TA suryat with vanguards.
    Not really sold on KHD, as our meta is quite low on hackers. And as always, rasyat is a coin flip, this game didn't had any good opportunities to pop out and kill stuff, all the necessary killing was done by other pieces, so maybe I should just switch him to a third krakot and a daturazi.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    This is frighteningly close to my list :P

    The current iteration has;
    Group 1
    Suryat HRL
    Vanguard HMG
    Anyat
    Vanguard Para
    Vanguard FO
    Vanguard Hacker
    Ikadron
    Ikadron
    Krakot dbl Chain
    Yaogat Lt

    Group 2
    Q-Drone
    Dr Worm w/ 1 Helper
    Daturazi Chain
    Yaogat MSR or Rasyat Spitfire
     
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  7. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Ran this one the weekend in a practice event. Came 6th of 13. Major Win (10-0), Draw (8-8) and Minor Loss (2-5).

    Win was against Invincibles - he deployed poorly but manage to kill the Q Drone, Suryat HRL and Yaogat MSR in his turn 1, but then overextended Tai Sheng to try and get a box (Supplies), and copped spec-fire E/M for his trouble. Game kinda spiralled from there for him.

    Draw was against TAK and a player I've never beaten (ranked #237). Game was a total slog start to finish. (Mission - Supremacy)

    Loss was against Avatar CA (ranked #68) and would have been a win if I had used Intelcom for the mission (Frontline), because he only edged out my centre zone control by using his own Intelcom :(
     
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  8. kanhead

    kanhead Member

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    @paraelix how are you finding the vanguard/Suryat link? I've had a fiddle with the Suryat TA HMG link and found it got locked down too easily. The typical MAF issue of not being able to deal with/apply negative mods. Means all my lists are starting with Q drone, supportware hacker & feuerbach Soggy.
     
  9. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Suryat is ARO lockdown. Specifically, anti-link lockdown because of the templates. I've found myself playing it generally quite defensively... the link team tends to be more aggressive/push out onto the board more after the Suryat dies. Either as a 4-person link or reforged as 5 with the Van Hacker.

    Game 1 - Suryat dropped fire pies on a Zuyong link and killed 2 before dying himself. Vanguard hacker killed a Liu Xing hacker in aro. Van reforged as 5 and Anyat spec fired e/m at Tai Sheng and statued him, then dueled a Red Fury Haidao. FO forward observed an unc Zuyong, then Coup De Gaced it for both my classifieds. Paramed and hacker each grabbed a supply box, and rounded out turn 2 with Anyat blitzing a Daoying with K1.

    Game 2 - Suryat/Van core helped kill a dog warrior, HRL toasted a full Assault Pack, and FO flash pulsed an antipode controller's last turn rambo. Van Hacker deployed xeno tech, claimed 2 objectives and proved an annoya ce with some Suppressive.

    Game 3 - Suryat HRL dies early to Avatar. Van Hacker spotlighted a Speculo, allowing my +3 Ph Krakot to spec fire grenades on 22s. 4-person Anyat team then advanced up the board and killed the Avatar with a single spray of K1 out of cover.
     
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  10. kanhead

    kanhead Member

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    So I've been working on my lists in advance of Cancon (Decap, Supplies, Supremacy, Frontline & Firefight). I'm not feeling super happy with them at the moment but have come up with the following for the last 4 misisons (everything except decap). I haven't adequately tested it in supremacy and it is a little heavy on specialists for Firefight but it's performing relatively well. It is crutching hard on the ability of the Sogarat to bully the table (he generally earns twice his points back) and struggles against TO snipers and MSR/HMG link teams with MSV/mimetism like all MAF. Good coverage of specialists for classified objectives and the plethora of DTW make it defensive up close despite relatively weak ranged ARO pieces.

    Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]5
    SOGARAT (Full Auto L2) Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 67)
    RASYAT Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 28)
    OZNAT Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 18)
    GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 7)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 7)
    M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    RODOK Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MORAT Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14)
    ZERAT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)

    4 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Thoughts or comments? I'm conscious that a Krakot would help as a disposable attack piece.

    Anyone got anything that works for Decap?
     
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  11. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    I'm unsure over Decap and Firefight. I feel like they probably want their own, exclusive lists... But I'm lost as to what they would look like.
     
  12. kanhead

    kanhead Member

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    The above has done well for me in firefight. Bubble wrap the backfield specialists with DTW and hope you can find a tall building to hide the vanguard LT on top of and make him the datatracker. You can generally achieve both classifieds and have a fighting chance to kill their LT/datatracker/more specialists/more army points with the rasyat & Sogarat. I ignore the panoplies, other than covering them with ARO lanes as they inevitably bait in specialists. Going second isn't bad if the terrain provides a defensible position.
     
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  13. kanhead

    kanhead Member

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    So I'm still struggling with a Decap list. The list I posted above can likely do it ok though I'm a bit worried the vanguard LT has too clear a target on his head. My current iteration is this list below. If I get first turn the game is easier with the Krakot lobbing grenades into the HVT early. If I go second I have to layer AROs to try and restrict the easy kill of the HVT and hopefully have enough pieces left to counter attack. In theory the Raktorak gets smoked up the table for the HVT kill but I'm not really sure...Kornak just sits there hard to kill, fueling orders and providing the haris.

    Cancon Decap test
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MORAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    KORNAK Lieutenant Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41)
    SURYAT Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 39)
    RAKTORAK Combi Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    YAOGAT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 34)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]5
    OZNAT Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 18)
    GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 7)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 7)
    RASYAT Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 28)

    5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The other list I tried with limited success was below. I was basing it on a limited insertion list that could protect an LT effectively. I found it relied very heavily on the Raicho and didn't impose enough ARO on an opponent going first.

    Decap test
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]5
    SURYAT Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
    RAICHO MULTI HMG + Heavy Shotgun, Mine Dispenser / . (2 | 94)
    [​IMG] RAICHO PILOT 2 Heavy Pistols, D-Charges, Knife. ()
    ZERAT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    RAKTORAK Red Fury / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 26)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 20)
    OZNAT Stalker Unit (Sensor) Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades + 1 Sync Preta / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] SYNC PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)

    4 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I think a better revision of the list would be:
    Decap test
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]5
    RAICHO MULTI HMG + Heavy Shotgun, Mine Dispenser / . (2 | 94)
    [​IMG] RAICHO PILOT 2 Heavy Pistols, D-Charges, Knife. ()
    RAKTORAK Red Fury / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 26)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    KORNAK Lieutenant Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41)
    SURYAT Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 39)

    6 SWC | 296 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    In that last list, I'd try to find a way to exchange the Krakot for a Raktorak, just so you can form the Kornak haris. Looks like you'd have to downgrade the Riacho to do it, though.
     
  15. kanhead

    kanhead Member

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    Just rely on the Raicho to be the datatracker and get the job done? The downgraded version is still plenty of fun and the heavy flamethrower still provides warband defense.

    Could also downgrade the Raicho to Sogarat FA and get a third Suryat for the haris...though have to lose the Qdrone then too.
     
  16. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    I'm just running with the same Yaogat Lt as in my other lists. I'm also relying on my Krakot to be DT and kill the HVT using Spec Fired grenades.

    (my only list variation for CanCon is Yaogat MSR swapping out for Rasyat Spitfire in case I feel so inclined for Firefight)

    Also, finished painting up my dudes :D

    Morats1.jpg
     
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  17. kanhead

    kanhead Member

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    Can you tell us more about this? I feel like it's a pretty expensive LT piece relative to a vanguard and only marginally more survivable. Do you want to spend orders on him?
     
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  18. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    The Yao Lt is only fractionally more expensive in *points* than the Rodok - and below him, the only cheaper option *points* wise is the Vanguard. The Vanguard Lt, however, is expensive in *SWC* - which the rest of my list has maxed. I felt more comfortable spending the points than I did the SWC.

    To compare the Van to the Yao - the Yao has same or better stats and gear. He also has MSV to reduce the ability of troops to sneak up on him or just straight improve his chances of FtF. It is also a model that you *can* spend orders on, where the Vanguard isn't. This also hooks into the Infinity Australia debate on internals...

    In QLD, Internals aren't used much - I can't "safely" stick a dude in the corner of the 3rd level of a building behind 7 doors and know that he is untouchable due to the ridiculous order sink required to reach him. Instead, I need an option that can to some degree defend itself. The last time I played Decap I ran a Van Lt - and he got obliterated by an AD Raoul Spector because of - stats, visual mods, positioning. The Yao changes the first two of those deficiencies.

    In my games with the Yao so far - he hasn't done a lot, but has excuded MSV threat. People avoid firelanes he is perched near. From 3 games, he nuked a Zuyong HMG with Panzer through smoke, set up staring down firelanes in Suppression vs TAK camo spam, and got murdered by a Speculo. However, if I was less of a git - in game 2 he could've won me the match because he brings 2 shots (plus Baggage reload) of Anti-Material weaponry that can be used to kill Buttons in Supremacy. Had I remembered this - game would've been mine.

    TL:DR - I spent the points rather than the SWC. I have 2 smoke throwers, so there's synergy. He's a model that *would* use his Lt order and achieve something with it. He is generally a *better* trooper than a Vanguard.

    EDIT - Morats still have Lt problems ;)
     
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  19. Lesh'

    Lesh' MAFter of Apes
    Warcor

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    Unmasking with Soggy
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]6
    SOGARAT (Full Auto L2) Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 67)
    OZNAT Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 18)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 7)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 7)
    GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    MORAT Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    RAKTORAK (NCO) Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    RODOK (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, 2 Light Shotguns / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    RODOK Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    RODOK HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27)
    Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Heyo,

    Had a game of Unmasking vs Yu-Jing this Sunday, finally got a bit of time to write things down.
    Day before the game messaged @DaRedOne @paraelix and @RobertShepherd for advice on how to build a list with new Sogarat profile, as it's the only thing that I still hadn't tried out at that time.

    Observations:
    Yeah, new sogarat is cool, but it's really hard to build a list around him that I'd be comfortable with. This game kinda ended on turn 2, as we hadn't much time, also I managed to guess correctly the Designated Target and killed it with Sogarat. I've decided to bring along a raktorak NCO to have 1 extra order for Soggy and to advance to the console as duo. New profile rocks, as I already said, but it's really unusual to throw only 3 dice in active turn with such and expensive unit :D
    Sadly soggy got taken care of by the monk in melee, as I hid him quite well so enemy model with msv2 and hmg couldn't shoot him in plus/zero range. Definetely need 1-2 more games to get a better feel on how to use him.
    Also felt that harris should have been moved to first group I guess, but then It's not quite sure what should be moved into second group. Probably I'd give this roster another go, though I'm really not a fan of running q-drone without an assisted fire program.

    And here are my almost fully painted MAFs, the only thing missing is the new kurgat auto-cannon mini.
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    @Lesh' Your Morat force looks great in those colors. Seems that you are up to date in sculpts except for the Kurgat and Rasyat models along with the Vulkan Shotgun Oznat. Are you going to grab any remaining sculpts you don't have or it's not a big deal to you?