I've been experimenting with this guy. Basically taking advantage of the improved floating links. Depending on the match up I may elect to form the Haris around Kornak and keep the Vanguard core "pure." Otherwise the Raktorak hides behind the Soggy, the Suryat heads into lead the vanguard, and the hacker tries to keep in range of the Q-Drone. That full auto Soggy is just brilliant. In several games he's clearly been the MVP, clearing ARO pieces with ease, being able to advance the specialist up behind him for free while I advance only comes into question when there is a datatracker in play. Morat Aggression Force ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 KORNAK Lieutenant Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41) SOGARAT (Full Auto L2) Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 67) RAKTORAK Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) SURYAT (Tactical Awareness) HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 48) ANYAT K1 Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Smoke Grenades, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) MORAT HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) MORAT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) MORAT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) MORAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) Q-DRONE Plasma Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Do you have any issues with the relative fragility of the list? Seems like it might bleed out the order pool pretty quickly if your opponent is packing proper heat to fight past the Q-Drone and just engages directly.
I haven't come up against a high order count or camo spam TAK yet, but I've performed quite well in comms center (believe it or not...) and supremacy against vanilla combined, Aleph and OSS. In my meta I'm more worried about being rushed by a sphynx than chain rifle skirmishers however we do have two Ariadna players I just haven't been able to flange up games with yet (we just started a slow grow & in the spirit I'm painting up a HB force)
Played Safe Area again yesterday vs Varuna Vang power ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 MORAT Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14) SURYAT (Tactical Awareness) HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 48) RAKTORAK (NCO) Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) MORAT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) MORAT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) MORAT Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19) MORAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 6 5 Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14) KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14) KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14) DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14) DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army So yeah, Suryat TA HMG in a vanguard core is dope. Feels almost like auto-include now. 2w with HMG that's immune to shock is just too good not to pick. Other alternative is ofc Rodoks. I think this list is good - if you're going second, you can leave ML in ARO, you still have 2 units to replaced him if he's dead completely, and plenty of template weapons to cover corners. If you're going first, you can place them more offensively. This particular match-up I think is tough, as snipers left in ARO have mimetism, you can't use smoke to bypass them and yadda-yadda, not to mention that REM with mechanized deployment can screw your plans a bit.
I've heard a lot of praise for this link but haven't gotten around to trying it yet. Whenever I make my lists I'm going for the FA Sog and a different link. I like having the long range firepower and core separate on the table. The Suryat+Vanguard core feels too cumbersome. The Vanguard aren't particularly good for ARO duty and if moving forward the HMG can lose it's range bands. I'm also spending 60+ points to fill that core alongside the Suryat to act as a single unit. The Sog has an Assault pistol and potentially a Raktorak while advancing as a Duo. The core can now be more specialized. If I want cheap orders it's the Oznat. If I want a crushing charge up the field I go for the Datz. Rodok's as you've said are still very solid. The Rodok HMG with FA Sog as backup is great. However I do admit the Rodok core is expensive and I typically go for the Haris now. I'm absolutely in love with the Rodok Haris. It doesn't need a Raktorak as it has good specialist options already and Mimetism for similar cost. In most cases, burst 4 shotguns don't need the full fireteam bonus to devastate within 8". If one dies there is another to take it's place. If the second kills whatever dropped the first... the paramedic can potentially bring the Haris bonus back. Plus it can drop mines as it advances, has super jump, two combi's if you want to drop into suppression. I've been playing around with using a different profile instead of the Lt but it's hard to ignore with NCO Raktorak's to use the order while the Lt is in the fireteam. RODOK (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, 2 Light Shotguns / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) RODOK Lieutenant Combi Rifle, 2 Light Shotguns / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) RODOK Paramedic (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) I've tried to build a list starting with the Yaogat Spitfire and Haris but I'm having trouble. YAOGAT (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle + Panzerfaust / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 30) YAOGAT Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 32) RAKTORAK (NCO) Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) Compared to the Rodok's, the basic Haris profile is meh; the cost is slightly higher; it's more fragile, and means i still need to include a Lt. I don't like Lt options in MAF at all outside the Rodok. However, it does have potential to take advantage of the plethora of smoke in MAF which is difficult to do imo. I'm just not sold on the lists I've made with it so far. I need to do better^^
Yeah the HRL, LSG Suryat is my favorite for the Vanguard Harris. I have no idea why, but the HRL continues to be criminally cheap. it's the second cheapest Suryat Profile, which leaves 9 points open compared to the TA HMG. I have considered the Multirifle+LFT, too. Use a Vanguard HMG or something to move from long range. Let the Suryat deal with armor and skirmishers etc. I used the Rodok Harris with KHD, and an HMG at the last tournament. That Harris has basically every rangeband covered, and with FD1, and Mines, it's astonishingly versatile. I used to take Yaogat Harris on occasion, but it just isn't good enough to warrant nearly 1/3rd of my points into. Yaogat remains a Solo troop for me - and with FD1, the Spitfire is perfect as a reserve deploy and/or as a thing to hang out with some random Daturazis. @Lesh' I can't generally understand taking the 14 point Krakot variant. Krakot's good,but the Daturazi has similar abilities in CC, gets mimetism, smoke grenades, still has regular grenades, and if you replace all 3 of those Krakot with Daturazi, you could link them if you wanted. Let them do their movement, swap the link to get a LOT of movement out of them (and guaranteed smoke throw!) then get back to your other link.
First on my list to try is definately the Suryat HRL plus light shotgun. It's mostly a range band consideration; being able to turn a corner and fire B3 BS22 shots solves many of life's problems. As for Krakots, I'm a firm fan of them provided you've already got a couple Daturazi (which Lesh does). Thanks to the slightly heavier armament and metachemistry, a Krakot can accomplish things a Daturazi couldn't while also never having to expose themselves to AROs if you instead just need them to act as an order battery. The number of times I've had a Krakot roll up a 6-4 MOV skill (40% chance, highly likely once you have multiple Krakots) and end up somewhere horrifically unexpected in the enemy deployment zone has made them firm favourites of mine. Plus basically every other metachem option except biommunity is golden and markedly differentiates the Krakots from Daturazi in some meaningful (albeit random) way.
They're both good. I prefer the SMG profile if I can get it, but it literally comes down to if I have a point spare. Sometimes you don't. E.g. if I had a single point spare and had to choose between upgrading an R-Drone to an Ikadron or a chain rifle Krakot to an SMG krakot, I'd pick the Ikadron. If I can downgrade a couple SMG krakots to chain rifle Krakots to make a meterial upgrade somewhere else (e.g. getting a wormbot for dr worm or upgrading a gaki to a preta) I'll probably do that. It's a nice little bit of flex.
Makes sense. I'm struggling to see the point of the Double SMG Krakot; +2 pts for 1 extra burst in active turn shooting, but downgrading from Anti-Material CCW to Shock... Doesn't seem like an exchange that would ever be worth the investment - even if you had free/dead points you couldn't spend any other way.
Yeah I've never used any profiles but the 14pt and 15pt ones. I know Vaul used the Red Fury one sometimes in some of his batreps and I don't want to dismiss it without having used it but it seemed like a mad waste of points to me for what you get, although I guess it does keep the chest mines.
Having run CRAP Morlocks often. I disagree. B4 makes up for the loss of cover, it means you can reliably win firefights that are iffy at B3. It's not something I feel I need in a list but as a 2pt upgrade it's useful. I wouldn't do it in a mission where antimaterial was a factor, but at lot of the time that's a non-issue.
Thing is, that if you're going second, most likely all of your template dudes will be covering corners and spread out, so quite unlikely for them to get linked into a core. Second, as @RobertShepherd already said, Krakots have a bit different role, and with meta-chemistry indeed can make a surprising attack. 6-4 climb+ or super-jump options are awesome, meaning you can often bypass some unwelcomed AROs, V-dogged with 2 chain rifles is deadly. Not to mention that often you don't want your guy running out, even with mimetism, so being non-extremely impetuous helps. As for other profiles, 15pt is okeish, but with Morats every point counts, so it's not something I can afford :D
Yes, indeed, it's less points total, less cumbersome, and has two nice weapons, both for long range and for close. But, it's S5 model, less BTS vs hacking, and only B3 in active turn, which in my opinion is not very good, BUT I haven't tried it out on the field yet, so I might be completely wrong here. Just my last couple of games were vs good ARO pieces that needed to be dealt with (Kamau, Vet Kazaks) and their mimetism seriously hinders effectiveness of your order spent on attacking. At least that's how I see it.
You can just back it up with a Suryat HMG in a fireteam. The Sog doesn't need to carry the whole team by itself. The big advantage is that the Fuerbach doubles as a strong ARO piece. Overall, I have never felt the Sog as being worth taking but now the FA version is a very interesting and flexible piece. It provides decent long range firepower while providing a strong ARO as well as being very resilient.
Both of them in a single list? Sounds a bit too much point-wise, unless it's a single group list, which I'm not a fan of lately.
FA2 soggy is now the single best shooter in MAF. It is the best choice for basically everything except TO camo and smoke for the cost/swc. However - it's worth noting that against something like a linked missile or something, the Suryat hmg in vanguard link has better odds. Obviously there's other stuff, but FA2 is insanely good. Also, if there's ever been a time to run 10 orders in MAF, this is it! Remember, that 10 orders will actually be 12 in basically Any configuration you choose. There won't be much room for warbands and such but sogorat on one flank and linked Suryat on the other is... A lot of facepunch.
Hehehe, I do love to run elite army lists. I think MAF is terrible as an order spam army. It feels made for single combat group teams.
I do like single groups as well, but in our local meta it's 15+ orders, so they have more room for mistakes. And I really don't like playing as a single group vs spam-lists. Maybe things might change with these 12 order single groups, but that requires testing.
Interesting observation, if you'll try to out range missle launcher with feurbach, odds becomes more interesting. All dice rolls are made vs linked missle launcher fusiler Suryat in 5 member link: 61.35% Suryats inflicts 1 or more wounds on Fusiliers (Unconscious) 30.71% Suryats inflicts 2 or more wounds on Fusiliers (Dead) Sogorat feurbach full auto: 54.38% Sogarat Tempest Regiment inflicts 1 or more wounds on Fusiliers (Unconscious) 33.17% Sogarat Tempest Regiment inflicts 2 or more wounds on Fusiliers (Dead) Sogorat feurbach full auto shooting in range >40": 62.72% Sogarat Tempest Regiment inflicts 1 or more wounds on Fusiliers (Unconscious) 37.88% Sogarat Tempest Regiment inflicts 2 or more wounds on Fusiliers (Dead) Sogorat Full Auto is de facto best shooter in Morat sectorial in almost all the cases... (TO snipers are the exptions...) So, take Yoagat sniper with smoke, Sogorat Full auto - you have two best shooters for all the possible cases IMHO...
