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Made My first army list, is it any Good? Arianda TAC

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Zerooness, Apr 8, 2019.

?

How is the list?

  1. What?!

    66.7%
  2. Quit the game

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Meh

    16.7%
  4. Could work with a bit improvement

    16.7%
  5. Perfecto

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Zerooness

    Zerooness Member

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    Tatary Army Corps: SWC C

    Group 1: 3 221

    Frontovnik (fireteam:Haris) T2 Rifle 0,5 24
    Veteran Kazak (fireteam:duo) Mk12 0 42
    Vassily (lieutenannt, forward observer) T2 Marksmanrifle 0 35
    Kazak Doktor Rifle 0 13
    Spetznaz (CH:ambush camouflage) HMG 1,5 38
    Line Kazak (forward observer) Rifle 0 10
    Line Kazak (forward observer) Rifle 0 10
    Line Kazak (forward observer) Rifle 0 10
    Frontovnik Molotok 1 30
    Line Kazak Rifle 0 9

    Group 2: 3 79

    Scout Ap AP Sniper Rifle 1 29
    Dozer (trak.Mul. Control Device) Rifle 0 14
    Traktor Mul (Total reaction) uragan MRL 1 18
    Traktor Mul (Total reaction) uragan MRL 1 18

    Tactic:
    FT.Core: Frontovik / Spetznaz / 2xLinekazak(FO) / KAzak Doctor
    FT.Duo: Veteran Kazak / LineKazak(Foward Observer)
    FT.Haris: Frontovik (molotok) / Vassily / LineKazak

    Use first order to move then mark (guide) a priority enemy
    bombard with uragan,
    clean up low armor targets with heavy weapons such as molotok, hmg, mk12 (Ft:Core Spetznaz gets B 5 and FT:Haris Frontovnik gets B5)
    Use veteran for Supressive if enemy snipers are killed with uragan, or guard the backline

    Aro option is guided Uragan with total reaction skill so on every guided enemy that shoots it gets b3 17 bs shots. maybe op?

    Thats my first armylist with tactics.
    please comment and tell me if i should quit and deinstall the game or if this list could have any legitimacy
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    You might want to double check the list of Fireteams as every one of yours is illegal.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/List_of_Fireteams#Tartary_Army_Corp

    Spetsnaz, Kazak Doctor, and Vassily can't be in a Fireteam at all.

    Line Kazaks can't form Duo or Haris teams.

    Frontovik Haris can only be joined by other Frontoviks or Wildcards.

    Vet Kazak Duo can't be joined by Line Kazaks.
     
    Keyrott and Zerooness like this.
  3. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    Welcome! Gonna start this with a couple links for you to do some reading on. Fireteams are now one of the more complicated parts of list building for a new player to figure out as there are both common rules and then things that add on to them in the new sectorials.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Common_Requirements
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/List_of_Fireteams#Tartary_Army_Corp

    From there you will find that your fireteams are not legal.

    Basically you need the same units and they must have a fireteam option listed in the above. colbrook already pointed some of that out, also the Doc isn't a Line Kazak so he can't join either, only the 112 in Frontovik Special Core.

    Once you get that sorted try again.

    Some more food for thought though. Think about the skills the units you have in that list. Why would you want the Spetsnaz in the fireteam at all even if you could? You would lose his camo and ambush camo as he can't be in a marker state in a fireteam. The bonus burst and BS would be nice to have but that guy is a sneaky hunter not a line trooper. His ability to hide in 2 or more places (you're brining more camo units to make that harder to predict right?) so the enemy can't be sure where he really is and then striking from an ideal location is where he shines. If he was tied down to a fireteam he would have a harder time lining up those shots. Surprise shot is a similar gain to the fireteam bonus anyway and he rarely needs more B to bring down his target.

    A Vet Kazak with an AP HMG is both legal in your core Kazak team as well as being much more able to use the bonus from the fireteam properly. His higher armour plus 2 effective wounds allows him to take riskier engagements compared to the Spetsnaz. He isn't sneaky so won't be running around in camo state to get angles, just a strait shooter which makes him more at home in the fireteam. His tough stats mean he can also be an effective ARO piece in the fireteam as long as he is in cover.

    While Ariadna can do the whole artillery thing its not something I would ever base a list around or expect to really work. Sure you might get a lucky setup where you can pull it off but most people won't be clumping their guys together when that threat exists. The effort and orders needed to get the targetted state is often higher than the effort to just shoot them dead with the forward observer.

    ***Edit: also you can't use Guided in ARO its only for active turn shooting. In additon targetted only last the player turn you use it. When it is you opponents turn it will have gone away meaning something would have to ARO a FO onto it which is again pointless when a successful rifle ARO would have killed it.

    You probably won't see anything worth spotting with a Line Kazak either. If you really want to spot something a better option is the Strelok FO profile. Having the camo (and surprise shot) plus the forward deployment gives you a chance to actually make it to the enemy you want to spot in one piece and be more likely to get the FO to land. Again +1B would be great as is the +3 to your WIP but the Strelok will be giving the enemy a -6 to their roll if they shoot back from its camo and surprise not to mention the chance it will negate their cover through good positioning. Also you are using TAK so take advantage of their fancier Muls if you are taking them, more likely to hit and the mine is both a great defense as well as adding to the camo mind games (place it where a Spetznaz might be to confuse the enemy!) . Personally I'd just take one and a baggage bot. If it died having 2 probably wouldn't have helped as you placed it somewhere their drop troops or sneaky guys could get to it and you didn't guard it well enough so that's 44pts and 2 SWC lost instead of just 27pts and 1SWC for taking a single Kuryer and baggage.

    So yea you have a lot to learn but once you figure out fireteam building and play some games to see how these ideas in you head play out under fire I'm sure you'll be back with better questions and better lists for us to look at!
     
    #3 Cry of the Wind, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
    Zerooness likes this.
  4. Zerooness

    Zerooness Member

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    Thanks for your very usefull comment, ill try to work that into my tactics :)
     
  5. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    No problem. I'm not the best player but do play Ariadna only right now so have seen what has and hasn't worked for me.

    This list I just tossed together will still have many elements of what you wanted to do just in a fashion that is more likely to succeed. You need specialists for most games and in this list I have several of them that start up the board or can hopefully smoke their way up. I still have your HMG Spetz but now you have the Vet Kaz in the main core team for secondary heavy firepower. Frontovik HRL is scary in ARO as well so this team can sit back and hug cover. Still some FOs in there too in case it comes up or for T3 dashes to push buttons and a spare body if someone goes down so you can keep the 5 man bonus longer (and you have 3 decoy Lts on the board too!).

    Docs aren't something to rely on in anyway either so I replaced that with an Irmandinho as they are cheap and fun. Good training for impetuous troops too. I also left a gap in that group so someone might thing you have an AD Spetsnaz in your list so they may waste troopers guarding from a threat that won't appear.

    I don't rate the Molotok too highly but that's more personal style. For mid field instead you have a few boarding shotguns and Pavel. The Ojotnik has great range bands and he brings mines and is a specialist too. The 2 Streloks can take advantage of the FO opportunities that come up and if they don't you still have a strong camo presence with some teeth and the ability to push buttons. Much better than a swarm of FO Kazaks that will die to what ever looks at them.

    Still have the Kuryer for you too but now you get a bonus mine and some cheap orders so you won't feel so bad for the 90% of games you just bought 3 orders with that team. With 6 orders in group 2 and the units I put in there chances are you will only use one or 2 models from that group in any one turn. You get that FO hit, bombs away. Spetsnaz has a target go on rambo. Need some buttons pushed or nothing better to do, Pavel is a toolbox ready for action or Vassily can move to where he might be needed. Just be careful with Vassily, he is very powerful but as soon as you reveal they will know he is your Lt based on his available profiles and option information (assuming they know your army at all which they will after a few games).

    This list has nothing really fancy or tricksy in it. Just a decent amount of camo with 10 spread around different deployment levels. Later on you'll want to start playing with more complex toys like the AD Spetsnaz, bikes and dogs but this list while basic still has teeth.

    Example
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    VETERAN KAZAK AP HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 47)
    FRONTOVIK Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
    STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    DOZER (Traktor Mul Control Device) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    TM KURYER (Total Reaction) Uragan MRL, Antipersonnel Mines / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21)
    TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    PAVEL McMANNUS Ojotnik, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, T2 CCW, Knife. (0 | 31)
    VASSILY Lieutenant (Forward Observer) T2 Marksman Rifle, Akrylat-Kanone, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35)
    SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  6. regelridderen

    regelridderen Dismember

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    Word of advice.

    Don’t bother about fireteams for your first few games, they aren’t necessary - and some would even say, that they’re more of a liability. Trouble is, they become a crutch, that you base your whole strategy on, but they could be gone before you’ve had your first turn.

    Fireteams strength is to move a specialist up the field, while firing a big gun, thus conserving orders. Yet players have a tendency to focus on the +3 bonus, but this isn’t necessary to win firefights, usually just having the advantage of active turn is enough for that.

    Instead focus on learning the strength of all of your models, so when you start playing with fireteams, you’ll know, how to do without them.
     
    colbrook and Zerooness like this.
  7. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Your gameplan feels like its taken from experience in warhammer or warmachine. I'd say you are overthinking and overplanning things and expecting things to work in ways they wont. For example the fireteam rules working drastically different than expected, but also things like "Aro option is guided Uragan with total reaction skill so on every guided enemy that shoots it gets b3 17 bs shots. maybe op?" - the marked state will wear off at the end of the turn and is highly unlikely to be applied in your reactive phase.

    I'd be running more basic fare for now, some cheap line troops, some dudes with HMG for sweeping, some of the infiltrator or AD options and get a feel for how they all play out. Definitely no link teams until those basics of moving, attacking, order economy and ARO are covered!
     
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  8. holycannoli

    holycannoli Dancing to Kazak Kalinka

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    Welcome to Infinity, Ariadna and TAK comrade! Like it's been said, a Spetznaz or a Kazak doctor can't go into a link team. I circled the important bits for forming a fireteam on the army builder.

    [​IMG]

    The special skill core means that unit can form a core, which is up to 5 of the same unit type. But with everyone getting special fireteams, those are found at the bottom of the unit selection. Down at the bottom special fireteams are mixed and matched compositions that can link. Keep in mind the language that CB uses is specific when it comes to "Up to ____" and "1 ___" as these form the requirements for this special fireteam, and might prevent you from forming it up during the game when casualties start rolling in. Sometimes you'll find the fireteam wildcard down there, which means that the mini can join in any fireteam, taking the place of a member (no 6 man fireteams). These general rules are the same for Haris and duo, the difference being the max number of members in this case 2 or 3.

    If you're playing against friends then I agree with some of the others here in that leave fireteams behind for now. Learning to move, face to face and ARO are much more important then stacking mods with fireteams.

    Onto the other elephant in the room...

    Oh the Traktor Muls, they're adorable little things and I want to love them more then they deserve. But 3 BS17 shots is a pipe dream sadly, take a look Comrade.

    [​IMG]

    The hit mode is in fact 3 shots. But see that the guided mode is only a single shot. That means that your direct fire on it's regular BS is 11, so 14 in range bands but you need to keep in mind most opponents tend to shoot from cover. While 3 pretty scary missiles flying overhead may look intimidating, if you lose a face to face then those missiles will never hit. The uragan seems like it wants to be a more direct fire variant of the MUL which is pretty difficult to use. We are Ariadna and a total reaction bot just isn't our strength. TR bots tend to go on the flanks of the board and keep some of the more budget infiltrators from running riot on order providing cheerleaders.

    Which the Uragan can do... sorta, like I said it's an odd duckling. Kuryer was a 3 point Mul+ that adds +1bs it rarely gets to use. If you're looking to guided mode then the more humble Katyusha may be your game, as you save some points if you're just going to be using guided. In that case see the 3 points you spend on Kuryer as 3 points for minelayer to help keep your deployment zone a little safer for your adorable artillery piece and any nearby friends. Speaking of nearby friends you'll find the suggested list also has the minesweeper mul. For 5 extra points you get an extra regular order since you're already paying for the control device.

    That said the MULS are one of those odd units that take a bit of learning and luck to use. Bring plenty of orders and redundant forward observers because remember, if you're attempting to spot a target it can and will proc an ARO. Read guided closely as like it's been said, FOing a target in ARO is rarely useful. Hardly an OP combo, I've found in my experience that it's not the end all be all to rambo units as you'll only end up with a pile of dead forward observers. However if you find a herd of cheerleaders in the back and manage to minimize the ARO to only a single one, now we're in business. I especially like to do this to link members who cheaped out and took only a shotgun as they're relatively safe to spot and can get teammates killed when a template drops on them. Look into TAK's plethora of infiltrating and forward deploying forward observers for this.


    Infinity has a lot to it, why my vote is in the WHAT? and not uninstall. Things take time to learn. I hope this can help you out comrade, good luck and the number 1 rule in the fight for Mother Winter and Dawn... have fun.
     
    #8 holycannoli, May 1, 2019
    Last edited: May 1, 2019