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Looting and sabotaging in OSS

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Nenyx, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    I was pondering about this specific mission. When playing Aleph or SP, we have many good to excellent solutions to kill the AC2. Expensives one like Achilles, cheap ones like CR ekdromos, we are not lacking.

    Let's say it's a bit different with OSS :)

    Here is the list of all troops that can wound the AC2 with their own equipment.
    Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    MARUT Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower, Nanopulser / AP CCW. (3 | 120)
    [​IMG] KARKATA Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    ANDROMEDA (Superior Infiltration) Submachine Gun, Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, DA CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 31)
    PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    ARJUNA Boarding Shotgun, Akrylat-Kanone, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] x2 KIRANBOT E/Marat, Cybermines / Electric Pulse. (8)

    3 SWC | 225 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    I won't consider the Marut for this. As much as i love our big bunny girl, i don't think she's fit for the job. I can consider using a Seraph since he's more mobile and wield an EXP CCW, but the Marut has only her bare CC weapon for the AC2.
    Andromeda is the only one with a native, non disposable antimaterial CCW. And she also has D-Charges, along with the best CC capabilities of the army. Her being S4 is a concern through, but she's the most fit for the job. I fear that the opponent would quickly see this and do anything to prevent her from coming close.
    All the others I listed have only D-Charges, and usually poor CC capabilities. I would still consider the arjuna, as she is a mobile gunfighter (i just linked the cheapest profile, but i would probably consider the red fury for this task), able to kill her way to the AC2 and destroy it. Her bots can give her more burst in melee (but she has only 3 D-Charges, should be enough through).
    The sophotech could be some kind of last turn backup, being fast with NWI to tank one wound if needed.

    Now here are some kind of gamble
    Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]6
    PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    SHAKTI Hacker (Killer Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Sucker Punch) Mk12, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40)
    YADU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    ASURA Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device Plus UPGRADE: Redrum) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 78)
    DASYU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 36)
    NAGA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)

    1 SWC | 245 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    These are some units that while they don't come with antimaterial weapons, can reliably loot a panoply to get a D-Charge. The infiltrators can start close to a panoply, loot and then try to make their way to the AC2.
    Asura and Shakti are more like another gamble. I put them in this list because they have both a rather high CC attribute and cybermask.

    Overall, i think that our best bet are arjunas. I'm not that sold on Andromeda, but i think i'll still try her. It could be worth to use a few nagas to loot panoplies and take D-Charges just in case, or taking a sophotech instead of an Mk.1 engineer.

    Any advices ?
     
  2. The Revanchist

    The Revanchist Active Member

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    It's not an easy mission for OperationS, it's true. Close Combat is a definite weakness.

    That being said, I believe the last time I played, it was D-Charges that my Asura Hacker picked up. That was after it was softened up by a hit from a Proxy Mk5.

    You'll typically need a pretty commanding board presence around the AC2, because there is not a reliable way to destroy it quickly. It can easily be Order intensive, so whoever is on it needs to attack it unmolested.
     
  3. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    I think Andromeda gets a bad rep. I haven't used her new profile but gave her about 20 test games when she came out because I thought she was interesting. Her biggest problem before the new profiles was that she didn't have long range guns to fight from a distance, and she wasn't forward deploying enough to get in close for her weapons.

    With her new profiles she brings improved forward deployment/infiltration and a combi rifle which should cover both of those issues nicely. When we look at the Arjuna we can see its a nice fighting platform and Andromeda brings all those nice bonuses with her, just she starts further up and gets a shorter range gun in exchange.
     
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  4. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    I think Andromeda can do well. I'm more concerned about the fact she's S4 and any cunning player will focus her first since she's by far the best one OSS can use to do the objective - in fact she is the only one who can reliably kill the AC2:

    Andromeda
    75.00% Andromeda, Sophistes of the Steel Phalanx inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (2 STR)
    43.75% Andromeda, Sophistes of the Steel Phalanx inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 STR)
    11.25% Andromeda, Sophistes of the Steel Phalanx inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)

    Arjuna (ie: the second best one, except perhaps an asura who would have looted a D-charge)
    53.12% Arjuna Troops inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (2 STR)
    31.25% Arjuna Troops inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 STR)
    8.12% Arjuna Troops inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)

    On average Andromeda will need 2 orders while an arjuna will need 3-4 orders. Plus the fact she can start farther and thus will need less orders moving. And if she runs out of D-charges she still has her DA CCW. But we really need some backup, since Andromeda is still a fragile S4 NWI troop and can be easily killed by any shock ARO.
     
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  5. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Did you factor in the burst and damage bonus for getting the Kiranbots into the CC? I think that is the reason people have been proposing it as an option
     
  6. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Here it is with the two bots in on the fight

    89.70% Arjuna Troops inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (2 STR)
    75.28% Arjuna Troops inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 STR)
    53.31% Arjuna Troops inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)
    32.68% Arjuna Troops inflicts 4 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Dead)
     
  7. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    I didnt factored it in my example, but i told about it in my first post. In your example, the arjuna will burn all 3 d charges for only 53% chances of killing it. If it fail, she has no backup, she just can't finish it. While Andromeda will have better odds with each D-charge because CC20 and DAM +2 from guardian L3, and if she still fail, she can finish it with her DA weapon.

    I'm still rating the arjunas highly through.
     
    #7 Nenyx, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  8. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Fair point. The Arjuna (well they both can) can snag extra on the way past a panopoly though with the bots getting a shot at some too with a roll if you play it right.
     
  9. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    I agree Andromeda's S4 does present a liability. But I dont think its insurmountable. You'll likely need to prioritize finishing off the AC2 aggressively. vs. Some armies that can sit back and have Saito Togan waltz onto the OBJ on the last turn to smack it around for example. Tools like White Noise and the Dakini link should help you crack open those angles and get Andromeda where she needs to be.

    Looting and Sabotage is definitely one of the clunkier missions for OSS though.
     
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  10. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    Looting and Sabotage as OS, also known as "How to sell more of this sculpt without bothering to fix the profile?"
     
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  11. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    As I've discussed in my post I strongly disagree with this sentiment. The changes to Andromeda covered many of her issues without changing the unit dramatically.
     
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  12. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    It's probably meta dependant. Since we often play with battle system sceneries, S4 is a big problem as it is too large for many stairs or balconies. With other sceneries, it is probably easier to use. I played Penthesilea a lot, but she can dismount if needed - Andromeda can't ditch the dog. It's a bit a shame since her new profiles are very interesting.

    For me, looting and sabotaging is "That One" mission for the OS. Probably the most troublesome of all for OS. It really needs a big board control to allow someone to try and destroy the AC2.
     
  13. Dhan-Keth

    Dhan-Keth New Member

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    On a side note I think it would be better to take guardian L2 for this attack. I think hit on 20 is better than the added DAM, no?
     
  14. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Good call on L2.

    88.12% Andromeda, Sophistes of the Steel Phalanx inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (2 STR)
    51.25% Andromeda, Sophistes of the Steel Phalanx inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 STR)
    13.12% Andromeda, Sophistes of the Steel Phalanx inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)
     
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  15. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. I never noticed N3 guardian was that poor :(
     
  16. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    L3 is quite handy against opponents hitting back normally (say CC 10-13), but L2 works better against targets that does not hit back and have high ARM. (Or against opponents with MA3+ and CC20+...)
     
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  17. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    Thats an interesting point and is definitely an issue. Do you find the issue is more with the width of the stairs or the height of them?
     
  18. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    Isnt it better just take vanilla for event with L&S?
     
  19. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    It's the width, it's often made for S2 troops. That's usually not a problem because the troops that are restricted have other assets. Penthesilea can use her fast Mov to reach the point and dismount if needed, Rudras has climbing+, TAGs (we often play with TAGs) can vault over many obstacles and their height give them a lot of line of view other troops can't have. But for Andromeda it may restrict her paths, and since she has a big red flag on her "kill her she's the only one who can destroy my AC2", i was looking for less obvious alternatives.
    I will definitely use her through, her new profiles are very interesting.

    Maybe. Vanilla has fearsome assets when it comes to destroy the AC2 while protecting your own. But i want to try doing it with OSS :)
     
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  20. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    FTFY. :grinning: