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lol miniature market is selling a no sell model for 20$

Discussion in 'Off-Topic English' started by redeemer, May 12, 2018.

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Should CB allow retailers to sell limited availability models after the preorder period have ended?

  1. yes

    26 vote(s)
    55.3%
  2. no

    21 vote(s)
    44.7%
  1. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    "Not for Sale" is enforceable by law in the US. Only applies to retailers, though.

    Once a private individual buys the item, it's re-sellable. But a retailer is playing dirty pool selling an explicitly labeled "Not For Sale" item.
     
  2. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    agree 100%
     
  3. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    At risk of sounding flippant, I'm pretty happy with the LE crane I just got for $25...
     
  4. FatherKnowsBest

    FatherKnowsBest Red Knight of Curmudgeon

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    Warstore did that some time ago as well.
     
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  5. FatherKnowsBest

    FatherKnowsBest Red Knight of Curmudgeon

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    Absolutely agree.
     
  6. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

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    moved to off topic.
     
  7. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but did you buy that from a retailer, or from a private individual?

    A retailer has no business selling anything labeled "Not For Sale". In the US, it's illegal to do so.
     
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  8. Shiwen

    Shiwen Commissar, Yu Jing Political Work Department

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    I definitely think selling a NOT FOR SALE item, as a retailer, is a bad thing (and odds the US is the only jurisdiction where doing so is actually illegal are probably low). But in terms of the actual question in the thread, we aren't working with the overarching idea "Is it wrong for a retailer to sell a pre-release miniature separately?" We're a bit more specific, with "Should CB allow a retailer to sell a pre-release miniature separately?"

    That NOT FOR SALE on the packaging is actually itself an act by Corvus Belli to disallow such sales, as it brings in law where applicable and a friendly agreement of sorts where not. So the question is actually even more specific, should CB go further in disallowing such sales?

    In this given example, for instance, what can Corvus Belli do when a NOT FOR SALE miniature appears for sale at a retailer? If there is law on their side, is it something the state will prosecute, or is it a matter for civil courts where CB would have to hire a lawyer and push the case? That takes time and money, even if CB is sure to win and force the item to be taken down from sale. Do they penalize retailers who sell those models by cutting them off from the Infinity miniatures supply? If they don't order direct from CB, CB needs to threaten distributors with being cut off if they pass product on to a 'blacklist' of bad retailers, that creates bad blood with the very people who are pushing your product to consumers and getting you your paycheque. Even if they do order direct from CB, cutting anyone off lessens the reach of your product.

    In the end, do I think selling this pre-release model separately was right or good or justified? No, absolutely not. Do I think CB should take any more steps than they already do to prevent these sales? No, I don't think the return on the time and money invested would be worth it.
     
  9. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest Day in, Day out. Day in, Day out. Day in, DAY OUT

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    IIRC, (and I many not recall correctly here. Take NaCl with the following) The Warstore sold Campaign:Paradiso at a discount to those who only wanted the book, and not Go-Go Marlene too. Go Go Marlene was for sale for quite some time after that as a single. It was even bundled with the Art Book at one point... As I mentioned here --> http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/17798-gogo-marlene/?do=findComment&comment=359431 The mini was never labelled 'Not For Sale'; was it?

    There were some shenanigans at The Warstore with the ABH --which was labelled 'Not For Sale' -- that came with the N3 book. Somewhere on the old forum is a thread about that.

    Miniature Market will buy back minis and cards. https://www.miniaturemarket.com/buyback/ It is possible, and one could e-mail MM to verify, that these LE Crane minis, and the LE Druze hackers, are buy backs. Normally the buy backs are PPMs (pre-painted minis) that are sold in blind boosters, for D&D and Pathfinder. WizKids is the manufacturer of them.

    If they are buy backs, MM would do itself well to mention it on the product page.
     
  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Corporations are also people in this country, so I'm going with a private individual.

    There seems to be a lot of people conflating legality and morality in this thread, for some reason.
     
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  11. deathklockk

    deathklockk Strange, but not a stranger.

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    You take that BACK!!!!

    [/sarcastic outrage]
     
  12. ShaeKonnit

    ShaeKonnit Well-Known Member

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    I remember Maelstrom Games over here in the UK used to do that all the time.
    That was back in my early days as a retailer, so of course I really wanted to follow all the rules and not get in trouble, so when I saw them selling all the ltd ed, pre-orders minis for Malifaux on their webstore in full public view, I did get a bit confused.
    All the info I had suggested I'd get into loads of trouble with Wyrd if I dared to sell them separately.
    Their practices were always a bit dodgy, anyway. Some friends of mine tried to buy some AT-43 minis from them for my birthday once, and they were left hanging for over a month on the promise of an impending restock.
    What they neglected to divulge was, at that point, AT-43 had already been discontinued and there would never be any restocks.
     
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  13. tdc

    tdc ALEPH Fragment
    Warcor

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    I'm really against the practice for the simple reason that CB has provided the miniatures for FREE for GAMERS to benefit. A RETAILER who sells on the model violates the generosity of CB and the spirit in which they are given. And the only way of getting additional copies of the model (NIB, never sold) is by splitting pre-orders. Ie. DENYING gamers from the free model CB wants to give them.

    I think it was the N3 bounty hunter where the warstore? split all copies that weren't pre-ordered on the day of arrival/release. Some stores never even got the free models for the ones they had pre-ordered... or even if they ordered slightly late they would get a "split" copy.

    To be honest, I would much rather the free models were packed like outrage was. Such that retailers would have to open (no longer shrink wrapped/New in Box) to split out the free model.

    Personally I just think its underhand and basically stealing by the retailer.

    (Note, none of this applies once the model is in the public domain)
     
  14. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I'm still waiting for a government to sentence a corporation to death. Then I might consider them a person in all aspects.

    A corporation is a way to separate the owner's personal property from the business, so that if/when the business fails, the owner is not left penniless and homeless.

    It is definitely of questionable morality for a retailer to sell goods marked "Not For Sale."

    In the US, it is also explicitly illegal for a retailer to sell goods marked "Not For Sale."
     
  15. Alkasyn

    Alkasyn Well-Known Member

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    Ah Maelstrom. They conned a good amount of people with their fire sales.
     
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  16. leigen_zero

    leigen_zero Morat Pacifist

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    I don't mind pre-order bonuses so much, providing they are just a little extra gravy on an already quality product. Alt sculpts/cosmetic items/etc are fine IMHO, but I think it's a bit of a dick move for an exclusive mini to be one that is necessary for every player, or grants a 'level up' so to speak over non pre-order buyers. Druze Hacker mini is a good example, it's a very cool alt sculpt that came as a little extra for a 'core' purchase that most people would buy anyway, but there is a 'regular' version in the druze box so no-one loses out.

    I remember my last order with maelstrom, bought one of those plastic GW paint stations, took them a month to get it to me.

    I still occasionally joke that I waited a month and paid 25 quid for a tea tray
     
  17. ShaeKonnit

    ShaeKonnit Well-Known Member

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    That's actually how I deal with the leftover Ltd Ed minis from all the splitting I do - place an order of equivalent value and I give the mini for free; that is in keeping with the intent.
     
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  18. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    This I actually can't comprehend.

    Can you actually explain how a pre-order miniature is somehow applying pressure to you? In the context of how CB does it.

    I think calling it underhanded is like blaming macdonalds for your obesity.
     
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  19. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    "You can only get this miniature by buying this thing you would otherwise have no interest whatsoever in buying". Kinda like "I want the Happy Meal toy, but the only way of getting one is to buy a Happy Meal, despite that food being 90% chemicals I don0t want to eat".

    While there is no power creep when it comes to CB's models as preorder bonus, some can only be obtained that way, like how Miranda Ashcroft's model was attainable only with the Preorder, or Giraldez's Juana, or the Mercenary for N3, or the Druze KHD girl with HSN3.

    Remember the Specops for the JSA can only be obtained as preorder with the JSA box, incidentally... there has not been a "public release" of that model yet. Like the Brawler model with the Uprising book.

    Saying that protesting this is like blaming McDonalds for being obese IS underhanded, and another sure way of making people realize that they need Corvus Belli LESS than the business needs the clients. After all, unlike McDonalds, Corvus does not offer something we need to live (food, in case you were wondering, answers the need to eat. Miniatures answer only free time-filling needs, and there is no shortage of options there).

    Then again, trying to imply others are in the wrong and pretending it's their fault for not explaining things to your liking seems to be the way you attempt to deflect criticism on CB, so it was to be expected.
     
  20. Danger Rose

    Danger Rose The Wrecking Belles

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    I tend to see it the other way around. They offer you a product that you might like, and as incentive to pre-order, they give you a mini you most likely will like. In that case, they are rewarding your willingness to put money way in advance instead of buying the product later when it comes out.

    The Company reward the confidence its clients have on them.
     
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