The thing is this sort of list isnt unique to tohaa. Heres some scots Caledonian Highlander Army──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1 8 2 2 WALLACE Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 35) McMURROUGH 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Templar CCW (AP + DA). (0 | 31) VOLUNTEER Paramedic (Medikit) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) VOLUNTEER Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8) VOLUNTEER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) HIGHLANDER GREY AP HMG, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 34) ISOBEL McGREGOR T2 Rifle, Flash Pulse, D-Charges, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26) DOZER Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) 112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 12) HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)GROUP 2 2 7 6 HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6) HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6) HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6) HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6) HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6) HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6) CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 24) S.A.S. (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 24) WARDRIVER Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19) 4.5 SWC | 297 PointsOpen in Infinity Army Same problems as your list. Its just something players need to learn to play against
Some of my thoughts. If you can deploy 20 models safely then your table is to dense. This makes me quite suspect of the tables you play on. You run something like this at Rumble or another major tourney and I doubt you will have the same luck. You have one decent gun. Kill the Sukeul and your list falls apart at range. A player who knows how to run TAGS will also be able to destroy most of this list. The problem is if you go first. So, if I saw this list I would deploy nearly every model in my army in ARO. I deploy my solid ARO piece in corners giving me a cross fire. Making you use speculative fire for your grenades. The last thing I want to do is let you make solid 16 rolls. I want to make you use spec fire for Grenades or FTF rolls. Sure good ideas thus far. I like minelayers a great deal because they help slow down these types of lists. The lists I have in mind are Caledonia lists with Wallace. The list in mind won Rumble in 2017. He said if you tooo out his one long range gun or used impersonators he was toast. I like your list and I think it looks fun to play. I really think it’s strange you can deploy 20 models with out having to deploy any of them in the open. Seriously examine your table setup.
Vanilla-flavored camo spam. Bon appetit. Ariadna──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1 7 3 2 UXÍA McNEILL (Covert Action) (CH: Limited Camouflage, Superior Infiltration, Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 27) LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9) SCOUT (Forward Observer) Ojotnik, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) DOZER (Traktor Mul Control Device) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) ASSAULT PACK undefined. (0 | 25) HANDLER Rifle, Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (- | 10) x3 ANTIPODE AP CC Weapon. (- | 15) TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5) TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5) IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8) IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)GROUP 2 6 1 SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 34) TANKHUNTER Portable Autocannon, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34) CHASSEUR (Minelayer) Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 20) CHASSEUR (Minelayer) Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 20) FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 24) FOXTROT Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) 5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
Borings' build here is basically ISS: The Tohaa Experience. It's effective for the same reasons that sectorial is.
e 20 models are often not deployed safely at all, often theres a solid blob of 10 guys right in the middle. I can deploy five s2 guys with three makaul prone behind them in such a way that the first smokes dont need to be spec and also dont provoke. After the smoke is down i can move the other guys to buildings not in the dz. Yeh this list is terrible at range. if they go first, a tag might be able to do some damage? Especially if they have heavy grenade launchers. If this list goes first the tag prolly wont have a chance to act. I dont think ive played against someone trying that, ill ask one of the locals to try it out. Theres not situations where you can force the makauls to make the eclipse grenades as f2f or spec fire unless they are literally the only units i have, or you have a hidden deployment troop pop out. This is (i think) most of the prollem with the list that the locals have. I agree on minelayers, they definitely help. Camo lists are a really good counter. A decent amount of the locals want ideas on how to deal with it tactically tho, and not all of their chosen factions have camo options. Its super fun to play. Ill try to build a typical table and post a pic to see if that is the prollem
The prollem with the comparisons im seeing from other factions is they dont have 6 models with eclipse grenades in fireteams. Msv2 at least gives oppopnents a chance to stop them.
Round 1 for the tourney i mentioned was : Caledonian Highlander Army - Untitled Roster (297/300 | 5/6) Group #1 | 10 Models | 8 2 2 Volunteer Paramedic | Paramedic, MediKit, Rifle, Pistol / Knife (10) Volunteer Rifle | Rifle, Pistol / Knife (8) Volunteer Rifle | Rifle, Pistol / Knife (8) Caledonian Mormaer AP HMG | AP HMG, Pistol / Knife (42) Highlander Chain Rifle | Smoke Grenades, Chain Rifle, Pistol / AP CCW (6) Highlander Chain Rifle | Smoke Grenades, Chain Rifle, Pistol / AP CCW (6) Wulver T2 Rifle | Grenades, T2 Rifle, Pistol / AP CCW (33) Uxia McNeill S.A.S. CP | CH: Camouflage, Infiltration, Multispectral Visor L1, Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades, Grenades, Pistol / AP CCW, Knife (28) Highlander Grey T2 Rifle | Smoke Grenades, T2 Rifle, Light Shotgun (2), Grenades, Pistol / CCW (33) Intel Spec-Ops | (1 BS, CH: Mimetism, Minelayer, Engineer, Boarding Shotgun) Rifle, Pistol / Knife (8 | 12 XP) Group #2 | 5 Models | 5 0 0 Scot 1st Submachine Gun Observer | Forward Observer, Submachine Gun (2), D.E.P., Pistol / Knife (19) Scot 1st Submachine Gun Observer | Forward Observer, Submachine Gun (2), D.E.P., Pistol / Knife (19) Scot 1st AP Marksman Observer | Forward Observer, AP Marksman Rifle, Pistol / Knife (24) Scot 1st Missile Launcher | Missile Launcher, Assault Pistol / Knife (27) Scot 1st Molotok | Molotok, Pistol / Knife (26) Open in MayaNet Round 3 was i think: Morat Aggression Force - Untitled Roster (299/300 | 5.5/6) Group #1 | 10 Models | 10 0 2 Suryat Vulkan | Vulkan Shotgun, Pistol / CCW (37) Suryat Haris | Fireteam: Haris, TinBot A (Deflector L1), Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Pistol / CCW (38) Suryat Heavy Rocket Launcher | Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun, Pistol / CCW (39) Raktorak Combi | Combi Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower, Pistol / Knife (23) Kornak Lieutenant | Lieutenant, Mk12, Light Flamethrower, Pistol / DA CCW (41) Dāturazi Chain Rifle | Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Grenades, Pistol / AP CCW (14) Dāturazi Chain Rifle | Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Grenades, Pistol / AP CCW (14) Yaogat Haris | Fireteam: Haris, Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust, Pistol / CCW (30) Yaogat Combi | Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust, Pistol / CCW (29) Yaogat MULTI Sniper Rifle | MULTI Sniper Rifle, Pistol / CCW (34) Open in MayaNet
Wow, those lists are just, wow. A lot of this has already been said but a few things jump out. 1. Lots of long range aros. Those links should have had your dz really locked down so that your whole order pool goes into long order smoke. 2. Morat- throw smoke aro. Long order for you to do anything inside while the msv2 has no problems. 3. Grenades aro. Dont be afraid to lob grenades in aro, it will scare your opponent a lot more than that combi.
True, a visor is a problem...that can be shot off the board at long range by the guys in camo in the back. The problem for your Makauls is that there are going to be mines and guys with template weapons in the middle of the board, and they won't care about eclipse grenades. Uxia will also likely deploy on your side of the board with a boarding shotgun in ARO, preferably in front of one of those nice big clusters of Makauls.