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List Building: Gao-Rael Sniper vs Nikoul?

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by SN0flux, May 16, 2018.

  1. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    One thing to consider when list building is that because the Mimitism the Nikoul has is provided by the Foxhole from the Sapper ability, the Nikoul retains it even when in the Inactive Symbiote profile.
     
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  2. D6Damager

    D6Damager Well-Known Member

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    Gao Rael if you have the points for it. Kaauri Sentinel if you don't have the points to spare.
     
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  3. Sora9785

    Sora9785 Well-Known Member

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    Everybody overlooks the humble Kamael Sniper!
    He costs 16 pt and 0,5 swc and is linkable. Take 3 and put them somewhere on ARO duty. They bring so much pain and give you 3 Orders. They will die of course.
     
  4. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    That's true. When I think cheap bonus sniper I tend to go Sentinel with all the visor/SSL2 love they provide.
     
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  5. DeadlyOcean

    DeadlyOcean SCAF Maelstrom Crew/Korean A! Manager/Sygmaa Spy;)

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    ofc lil Kaauri Sniper do their best job!
     
  6. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    Genuinely cannot go wrong with this set up. Lovely little AROs and force enemy to bleed orders on dealing with them if you leave them covering objectives
     
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  7. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    See I never found them that good. They are only bs 11, and as soon as the third member goes down they are going to lose most shoot outs with a wet fish. For the 3 Kamael and 2 points more you could have the Nikoul minelayer and 2 chaska aux, or for three points more you could have the Rael and 2 chaska aux.
     
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  8. Magonus

    Magonus Well-Known Member

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    The trick for Kamael Snipers is to not put them all in the same triad. Since you can mix & match triads, it's wise to space your triads so that you can lose 2-3 Kamaels and reform your Triads accordingly. E.g:

    [​IMG] KAMAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    [​IMG] KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] KAMAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    [​IMG] KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] SAKIEL Viral Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] KAMAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    [​IMG] MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] SAKIEL Combi Rifle, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23)

    becomes:

    [​IMG] KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] SAKIEL Viral Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] SAKIEL Combi Rifle, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23)
     
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  9. Estetioeslahostia

    Estetioeslahostia Well-Known Member

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    I use both simultaneously many times...

    I have met people who tell me that investing in the Nikoul is throwing points, being able to put in its place a Sukeul ML.
    In my opinion it is not true.

    In my lists a triad with Gao Rael Sniper is the basic one. From there are several options ... if you put a Sukeul ML in the same triad you gain a lot of power, but concentrated in a certain point. If you want to put the Sukeul ML in another triad, him and the "filler" minis are too many points.

    That's where the Nikoul appears. He goes alone and can not link, it's true. Who cares? Let's be serious, in most cases the ARO is to subtract orders from the opponent, especially if he starts with the initiative ... what happens is that we are used to that, with the R2, we can also in some cases do damage. The Nikoul works very well for me, and if there is a line of fire on one flank and I can cover the entrance of paratroopers with his mine ... better yet.

    Obviously I do not always play two reactive miniatures and not always if I do so are the Gao Rael and the Nikoul (sometimes I only play one, sometimes I go short of CAP or I have to play highly classified and I'm interested in taking the Kaauri Sniper... ) , but I believe that one of the fundamental advantages of tohaa is the reactive turn. Two miniatures in ARO with symbiont and frog, one sapper and with viral and the other with R2 ... and taking into account the command tokken to subtract two orders, even lists with active "beasts" have to spend practically their entire turn in killing your reactive miniatures, and they do not always get it.

    PD: Sorry for my level of English ... I work on improving it: P
     
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  10. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    They're about layered defence and forcing an opponent to bleed orders to deal with them. Theyre good area denial too and can be very useful for shaping your opponents deployment if you're dropping first or reacting to an opponents drop if you're second. Put them on a lane where there are less big guns coming at you and either watch your opponent shift stuff over to deal with them or avoid that lane entirely. They look crap on paper, I get it, but they're really useful tactically
     
  11. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Why wasn't the clipsos sniper not mentioned yet? If the enemy has first turn, let him deploy hidden and when he appears suddenly, its TO with cover means anything without MSV will probably have some problems clearing him
     
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  12. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    I hate to use infiltrators with snipers. It's a waste of either the sniper rifle range bands or the infiltration.
     
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  13. SN0flux

    SN0flux Member

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    I haven't fielded them yet, but that seems like a waste of Infiltration. I'd rather take a shotgun or combi button pusher that can surprise after they already push up the field

    EDIT: Agreed with macfergusson, just beat me to it by a minute. :)
     
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  14. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    Also a single BS 11 sniper shot is a huge waste to me. They work so well as some of the cheaper TO in the game, it's nice to have them up the board for objectives/presupposition, and mines.
     
  15. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    I think the Kamael works better as a backup active turn option than as a dedicated aro piece.
     
  16. Magonus

    Magonus Well-Known Member

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    YMMV, then. I used to make regular use of Clipsos Snipers a couple years ago. Main reason I stopped is because I stopped relying on Clipsos.

    Kamael Snipers work great as dedicated ARO pieces, but you have to accept that they are going to die.
     
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  17. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Nokoul is a single BS12 shot so not that much better but he has msv 1 and a viral sniper so yeah most cases nikoul is a better pick than clipsos sniper but I don't think that you are wasting infiltration necessarily, thats a matter what kind of map you are playing on I often have huge towers just outside my deployment zone, so putting him up there can be pretty fun
     
  18. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    With a Viral Sniper, and symbio armour that could come with a mate, he's a more threating piece, even if he's missing shots he's taking up enemy orders, wether they win the face to face or not, and most units are too afraid of taking a DMG 15 Viral round(or any viral round) on the chin to ignore him.
     
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  19. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    Yes he is only bs 12 but hes putting a -6 on the opponent, give a bomb and he has to be dealt with or avoided.
     
  20. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Put a Sukeul K1 into cover, put a mate on it and he can't be avoided either and can be used to fill fireteams, also bs 13? :P also for what would you give the nikoul a bomb?
     
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