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List brainstorming thread

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Jonno, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible

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    Also I find if you're threatening heavy weapons out of a link (or something like an HRMC), people tend to keep their stuff hidden so you have more space to maneuver.
     
    #141 Paegis, Dec 9, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Agree with this!

    You only have too much rooftop clutter when there's no place to put a model! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  3. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    Thoughts regarding this list? I don't typically run missile launcher Hac Tao, but I think this list can work against a variety of problems. I imagine you could even pretend that the link team is only defended by a flash pulse bot and reveal the hac tao when the opponent tries to outmanouver them. If you are at risk of hacking, just put on fairy dust and recamo the Daoying, and the link should be okay.

    Should hopefully be able to sniff out a lot of camo too, and you have a fast specialist hanging out at the back.


    Elite
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
    HǍIDÀO Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYǑNG Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 29)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    HAC TAO Missile Launcher, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 65)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)

    4.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    zapp likes this.
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    You go into infowar you're dead in the water, that's what I see from that.
     
  5. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    Wouldn't really try to. I suppose there is a risk of a drop troop or someone trying to reveal the Daoying, then yes, LT dead from a killer hacker (through your repeater net). Is that what you mean?
     
    #145 IAGO242, Dec 10, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    No, I mean one dude with a pitcher or infiltrator with a deployable repeater and your HI link team is going to be screwed spending the the whole game eating isolation and immobilise rolls. Trying to activate and move that link will turn into a nightmare because you neglected to bring a KHD to remove offending hackers.

    If that link gets pinned by a repeater you're done. You have nothing else. It's all good to say don't worry about it they're rolling on 5s and stuff, but if you have a few hackers just constantly spamming you with normal rolls while you're trying to gunfight they're gonna stick some shit on you eventually.
     
    Ten Thousand Arrows and IAGO242 like this.
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Basically @Triumph is saying that this fireteam below will stop your list dead in it's track and be at the complete mercy of how your opponent spends their orders:

    Ikari Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    DRUZE (Fireteam: Haris, X Visor) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Viral Pistol, CCW. (1 | 25)
    DRUZE Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)
    DRUZE Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)

    2 SWC | 81 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Oh, spec firing E/M will basically end you too. Dart and Emily is basically game over for you as well.

    Haidaos are shit tier in terms of engineer support for your HI link teams. When the E/M starts flying guess who's getting immobilised first. Numbnuts who brought BTS 0 to the party is a solid bet.

    TBH I don't think you can build an effective or safe IA list in the majority of cases without opening with a KHD Haidao and a Zhanshi Gongcheng.
     
    McNamara, Sedral and IAGO242 like this.
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    How to HARD counter IA
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1
    DRUZE (Fireteam: Haris, X Visor) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Viral Pistol, CCW. (1 | 25)
    DRUZE Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)
    DRUZE Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)
    DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (E/M and Nimbus) / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)

    4 SWC | 140 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    And there we go... 140 points that'll stop any amount of IA dead in their tracks. I do think that Zhencha is the answer to this particular problem, however, rather than Haidao (who can easily be overwhelmed in active turn), and going forward I'll likely never build a list without at least one Zhencha.
     
    IAGO242 likes this.
  10. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    Very fair points. thank you.

    Problem solved?
    Elite v2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYǑNG Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 29)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    HAC TAO Missile Launcher, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 65)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    4 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Sedral likes this.
  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It's a gimmick list hoping for a big unexpected ARO hit off the Hac Tao, but you cover your bases better now. If you decide you want the Fairy Dust support back you could always drop the Weibing down to a Chaiyi, but realistically this list has 1 goal which is go first, charge down the table and stomp shit with your link team so Tai Sheng is probably going to just steal those LT orders in the majority of cases anyway. Basically the normal Limited Insertion conundrum.

    Like it's a gimmick sure, and I respect playing that because it's good to throw weird shit around like this every now and then just to keep people guessing, but on a different note these are some examples of why I have trouble justifying the Hac Tao ML in general as an ARO piece


    [​IMG]3
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)

    2 SWC | 64 Points


    For the costs involved for the Hac Tao there are definitely some more efficient options in terms of model count you can bring to the table. It's all good to hope his TO will keep him safe but he's only chucking 1 dice and other fireteams are fully capable of brute forcing him off the table with linked HMGs.
     
    #151 Triumph, Dec 10, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  12. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    Yeah, I fully agree. Just taking the risk I suppose. I have only used it once, where it destroyed a keisotsu link in ARO. I typically go the killer hacker route or sometimes HMG.
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    On the plus side. If you are going to actually play this list I recommend deploying the Hac Tao in the regular Camo state. Position it with the Daoying to make it look like you've taken the MSR minelayer profile to improve your chances somebody walks into a terrible ARO for that Hac Tao. When you're playing one of these lists never go half retard, always go full retard. If you go half retard you're fucking done for.

    [​IMG]
     
    ambisinister likes this.
  14. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    The Hac Tao ML is more a reactive killer than an ARO piece. You can engage on your term, wait for your opponent to get out of cover or expose a valuable unit, and simply destroy it. He's great to break your opponent's momentum, and it can potentially save you from a devastating alpha strike (quite expensive insurance though).
     
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I think one less Hacker and one more E/M LGL would be better/worse!
     
    Deltervees likes this.
  16. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I might try this for a game. The Zhanshi link is a bit like my Ikari Keisotsu link.

    TAG, Zhan link
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    GŪIJIĂ MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / AP CCW. (2 | 88)
    [​IMG] GŪIJIĂ PILOT Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. ()
    SHÀNG JÍ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 39)
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Death and Jonno like this.
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Maybe maybe not. More hackers stacks better than more BS Attacks. Weight of AROs and no LOF and all that.
     
  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Might consider deploying the Hac Tao as a camo marker (whichever version of the list you run). Gives a decoy "LT" option.
     
  19. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    How is this any different from any HI based sectorial. Do you guys think knight links and Riot Girrls really fair any better?

    Fortunately, when you go to a tournament its really hard to focus on hard countering HI teams because a lot of that is useless vs low tech teams.
     
    Jonno likes this.
  20. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Well yeah, no shit they do. Knights and Riot Girls have access to Hyper Dynamics and better stats. They dodge alot better than PH12 Zuyongs