1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Let's talk shop

Discussion in 'O-12' started by MikeTheScrivener, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,462
    Likes Received:
    8,031
    I don't think over-investing in Remotes is going to make the Cyberghost pull their weight more, but if you need alternative uses for them then this is the only Pitcher available in a faction with very limited access to Deployable Repeaters (none of which are on SK models). Personally, 26/0.5 isn't much investment on the fairly remove chance of facing someone where both Pitcher and White Noise does nothing.
     
  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    2,609
    of course – what I meant with my previous comment is that the main reason to take him over the Kappa hacker is the white noise. Realistically there isn't too much of a difference between the HD+ and the HD in this army because of the ease of access of KHDs. You're always going to be including remotes/HI/drop troop in some capacity so I would never really leave home without some type of regular or plus hacking device.
     
    Brother Smoke likes this.
  3. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    Good point, there really isn't much more to it than the white noise. I guess it depends on the meta
     
  4. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    2,609
    And as @Mahtamori points out, pitchers. Though I feel as though those are less important with the Sirius bot being a large mobile repeater. 26/0.5 isn't that much an investment either, just tough when it's competing with 15/0.5.

    Cyberghost is certainly useful though. Maybe not the KHD though – theres some tough competition there
     
  5. Will L.

    Will L. New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    3
    The problem with trying to use White Noise to root out MSV Snipers in links is that they basically ignore the WN Cloud thanks to SSL2... so it’s a waste unless you can bring them down below 4 members.
     
  6. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    2,609
    Of course – shooting through it at them isn't necessarily always the answer. Sometimes it's worth it to blind them and then pick off other, valuable troops. Or just activate an objective and move on, or maybe it allows you to flank them and get at juicier, weaker link members. Sometimes it's just about throwing it down to only take 1 ARO at a time instead of 2.
     
    WarHound and Brother Smoke like this.
  7. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    535
    This is why the Sirius kit is what works with the Cyberghost bring so well. Use the repeater on the glue bot to drop a white noise over the Sirius. Then activate the sirius and move the glue bot out of the cloud. MSV sniper either shoots your bot or dodges, either way they are eating a red fury they can't shoot against.
     
    WarHound, Sedral, Will L. and 4 others like this.
  8. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    574
    So I have been experimenting with O12 for abit over a month now.
    The shop talk in this thread has been great.
    My top units of the faction in no particular order are...

    Alpha: It's very hard to justify another LT, This one is basically an auto include for me.

    Team Sirius: Be it the cheap red fury, or the handy FO this is an auto include and I would be hard pressed not taking two.

    Varangian Guard: My new favorite cheerleader/Backline defender in Infinity.

    Gangbuster: You would think this would be to much overlap with Team Sirius but they have been complementing themselves very nicely in my lists.

    For my last unit I had to pick from the Beta, who can attack from odd directions, and gets added use out of the Monstrucker (another great unit) or the impressive Gamma (AKA Gunshow) unit. However I think the Beta is just a tiny bit more deadly as a Rambo unit thanks to the 6-2 movement and I value that just a bit more then the tankyness of the Gamma. However they are so close that I could see favoring the other depending on meta
     
  9. xammy

    xammy Keeper of Random Facts and Strong Opinions

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    631
    I played a game last night and got stomped by Achilles, but out of that I came to a realization. Exclusion zone missions make the normal defense strategies less effective for O-12.

    Since everything ends up being condensed into that 16" band, it's easier for an opponent to punch through several things at once. You can also run into deployment zone cramping, which further exacerbate the problem.

    It's just something to keep in mind when setting up lists and deployment on these missions. The best part of O-12 defense is that it takes a while to chew through, so try to replicate that in your deployment zone if you are able.
     
    Mahtamori and MikeTheScrivener like this.
  10. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    2,609
    Oh for sure – with exclusion zones, depending on mission, Gangbusters are almost not even worth taking. Those points are probably better invested in long range AROs like the TR bot or the Lynx MSR.

    I find that you have to take a very different approach to list building when considering Gangbuster defense may not be as effective.
     
  11. xammy

    xammy Keeper of Random Facts and Strong Opinions

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    631
    I was thinking of just taking 1 for lieutenant defense.
     
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.
  12. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

    Joined:
    May 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,049
    Likes Received:
    6,590
    You can use a coordinated Order to walk something cheap (like a bot, or even better, a Madtrap) into LoF of the sniper, while everyone else hides in white noise. The Sniper must shoot the cheap visible target (or Dodge,) which means your other three Coordinated Order participants can shoot with safety. If you use long-range hard-hitting weapons, like a Fuerbach or MULTI Sniper, you can generate very good odds this way.
     
  13. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    574
    I was just talking about exclusion zones at the end of my last game.

    I know this comment is going to be kind of inflammatory but I would probably debate reaching for a different army on such missions.
     
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.
  14. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    2,609
    oof!

    I would argue that O-12 also has a lot of upsides in missions that include exclusions zones – O-12 sports a number a very capable combat specialists for missions like Countermeasures and Unmasking. In The Armory, Varangian Guard and Betas are extremely useful. One dishing out templates and CC and smoke and the other wielding deadly close range weapons while maintaining specialist status. and also dodging on 15s.
     
  15. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    I don't know if just the fact that there will be a mission with exclusion zone in a tourney would be reason enough not to play O12, if all missions have it though it would be wonk

    It'd be like playing Ariadna in a tourney with 3 rounds of biotechvore
     
    xammy and MikeTheScrivener like this.
  16. xammy

    xammy Keeper of Random Facts and Strong Opinions

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    631
    It's really just a different kind of puzzle to solve, the Lynx becomes more valuable, the Beta begins to really show its quality, and you can abuse some long range tools like the epsilon and gamma. Bots also look pretty solid in this format.

    Things that start to loose their luster are Team Sirius, gangbusters, and razors.
     
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.
  17. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    2,609
    The Beta is a diamond in all formats!
    I will hear no more of this!

    On a more serious note – it's also interesting to mention that in a LI format the Beta is a really valuable piece – he can be your attacker, he can be your doctor, and he can be a pretty capable combat specialist (KHD/Special OP). and they're AVA 3! so fitting 2 or 3 in a list is pretty comfortable and very viable.
     
    Mahtamori and xammy like this.
  18. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    498
    If a mechanic in a competitive rules packet incentivizes you taking a different army then that mechanic needs to be examined.

    In some missions it makes some sense (Unmasking) as it stops a specialist rush from winning out right. In others (Countermeasures) it make little to no sense. I'd like it a lot more if it was only applied during deployment so that way AD isn't completely shafted by it.
     
    natetehaggresar likes this.
  19. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    480
    YES! THIS!

    I don't think I will ever take operations to an event with looting and sabotaging.
     
    xammy likes this.
  20. Saitan247

    Saitan247 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    31
    Do you play both with the red fury?

    Regarding the Betatrooper, can you explain how you use him... I see the profile but somehow can´t fit his concept into my list :(

    THX