1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Let's talk shop

Discussion in 'O-12' started by MikeTheScrivener, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    2,523
    Buy and large the alpha. He's a really, really effective LT – albeit a very obvious one but still relatively capable himself. As for the Gangbusters, it depends – generally what load out they're taking and what you're playing against. MSV + mimetism is really great for killing other infiltrators. When I take the combi rifle I try and take advantage of this combo and bully camo tokens and alot of enemy FD troopers. When I take the KHD they tend to play a more defensive role, just due to the restrictive nature of the rangeband of the SMG. Mines and DTWs are really dangerous to these guys, their terrible PH hurts them in this aspect compared to other infiltrators.

    I like the Gamma too – he's certainly not my go-to HI but he's easily one of the most durable pieces in the army, and theres value in that. As for Team Sirius, I find myself taking the FO profile now. She's a good Liaison Officer in relevant missions!
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  2. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    569
    When I look at the model, I see a bunch of stuff I hate.
    We have a high CC stat I am almost never going to use, It is very squishy and has a big butt making it hard to protect. Two shotguns and Two NP on a model that pops if you look at it funny. I have little interest in B-visor lv2 as this is not really going to mater most of the time.
    Hell this unit almost looks built to cancel Fidays but it's still not really going to stop that Fiday from shotgunning you.
    Counter Intelligence and Strategos lv 2 are the only thing going for it but with so much bloat and things I don't really want I am not willing to spend..... (double checks notes) errmmm that can't be right.....(triple checks notes)….. Like I said, I want to dislike it, but there is a reason it was in my list.
     
    WarHound likes this.
  3. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    2,523
    the way I see it, the CC, the LSG, the NP, and the Bio-metric visor 2 are all really good deterrents. a Speculo or a FIday are never going to want to fight these guys in close combat. Ignoring surprise attack and returning with B2 ~CC21 will pretty much wreck any impersonator. Think of spending the points on these skills as investing in defense – even if you never get to use them then they've done their job.

    If you're forcing a Fiday or speculo to shotgun one model then they're probably in a pretty bad position as is. this just gives you more opportunities to screen/discover/chain rifle/shoot as they try and maneuver into a position they feel is favorable for them. Besides, with Strategos 2 you can hold 2 models back, the Alpha and something else. You can have your cake and eat it too by holding your LT so he's in a safe space and you still get that reserve drop.

    I understand why you might not want to take him – but as you said it's tough to justify. my only wish is that the CoC option was a bit cheaper
     
  4. Wizardlizard

    Wizardlizard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2018
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    66
    Yeah I wish they had a different coc but the alpha is an amazing lt and I dont feel like there is a valuable option other than the alpha...which I'll admit is not ideal. Gamma is active and you'll need an alpha coc to use, kappa well SWC penalty and highly killable.
    Alpha bot only is real story driven and wrecks impersonators days but a great backfield cover unit. I dont love that it feels like an auto take in one form or another ...but hardly the worst thing.
     
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.
  5. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    1,343
    I have yet to spend a single order on an Alpha, but I have also yet to make single list without one
    He spends his days sunbathing prone on a building and everyone else is all the better for it
     
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.
  6. Fearbox

    Fearbox Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2018
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    34
    I have used my alpha to get predator in one game, but generally he just sits in the back. Has anyone had go results with the delta?
     
  7. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    1,343
    The KHD Delta and Jose Cuervo Goldschlager have easily become two of my favorite profiles. Cuervo has sliced his way through entire teams of Brigada and removed steel phalanx backlines llike chaff.
     
  8. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    2,523
    LOVE the delta – If theres a doctor in my list you can guarantee I'm reaching for the Delta doc instead of the Lambda. His stats are just good enough to make a difference but not too pricey. It feels like almost all of his profiles get some type of discount. Templates are great on this guy too, he gets a lot of use out of that shotgun and the riotstopper. Possibly one of my favorite units in the army, right up there with the epsilon. I'm only hoping they come out with more minis so I can run multiple.
    KHD and doctor profiles are the stand outs IMHO.

    Funny enough this is also what I call him :joy:
     
  9. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    569
    Well I don't really agree with some of your points, but it is so cheap that I do feel it's our best bet most of the time.
    +1 wip only used for one roll really, strat lv2 frees up that LT order, a second reserve trooper in deployment is sweet, counter intelligence to preserve a first turn strike, and basically +1 SWC, all for only 14 points.
    A cheerleader is going to cost about that much and can't boost you to 11 orders in one group or come with all the other toys.
    Honestly unless I really need the extra points and have swc to spare then I am going to take this LT every time, even if it has a big butt.
     
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.
  10. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    I feel like you may be over valuing the defensive stats that these tools provide. A speculo still has a better than even chance of bullying the Alpha into submission. If the opposing player knows for a their removing your LT its often a minor risk with a huge benefit.

    That being said the Alpha is still excellent and it has excellent defensive tools. Just using that strategic reserve carefully is pretty integral to keeping it safe.

    Edit: As pointed out below my numbers were off.
     
    #50 TheRedZealot, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.
  11. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    2,523
    So I'm not sure if the Dice Calculator is calculating the Burst bonus on guard correctly – but here is what I can get with Guard 2 against the speculo.

    *EDIT: it appears as though it isn't. With Guard 4 the speculo is down to ~28% to kill and the Alpha up to ~50%

    Screen Shot 2019-09-09 at 2.17.47 PM.JPG

    click here for the fight details.

    Those are some pretty terrible odds. Of course theres always the risk - reward with killing the enemy's LT. Sometimes its worth it to risk but more often I find that opponents opt to just simply choose another target. I totally agree on that extra reserve drop though – it's like another free layer of defense for him.

    I mean, that's really what it boils down to isn't it. At 26 points for 2 regular orders you're pretty much going to be getting that value out of a line troop LT + remote/line troop/whatever anyway. In addition to all the other bonuses you get. What value!
     
    #51 MikeTheScrivener, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,262
    Likes Received:
    7,817
    @MikeTheScrivener The calculator doesn't seem to add the burst bonus. I've added a report for Toadchild in the news thread. Also, Guard is very linear, at least against an opponent of Speculo calibre, so L4 is better than L3 is better than L2... here's what I get (and keeping in mind the BioV denies Surprise Attack):

    Active Player
    51.50% Custom Unit inflicts 1 or more wounds on Speculo Killers (Spawn Embryo)
    37.99% Custom Unit inflicts 2 or more wounds on Speculo Killers (Dead)

    Failures
    18.92% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    29.58% Speculo Killers inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Dead)
     
  13. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Oh well thats what I get for relying on technology. I knew given the circumstances that level 3 was always the correct choice and ran the numbers off that just to be curious. Of course with only B1 its a heck of a lot worse than what it really is.

    That being said the shotgun is still a solid option for the speculo particularly if it can retain cover. But its less likely to get the full gib for sure.
     
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,262
    Likes Received:
    7,817
    Yeah, it pretty much forces the Speculo to use the shotgun which makes it kind of a disadvantaged Fraacta. Just never let that Alpha be alone.
     
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.
  15. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    569
    Yah that's it. It has lots of things I can point at and say I don't like, or only find marginally useful, I play vs Haqq ALL THE TIME and they almost never make it into melee combat even when I am using a vulnerable LT.
    In the end even that marginal stuff adds up. The only other LT I would really consider is the Gamma and that comes with it's own tradeoffs.

    Right now I am struggling with Lynx vs Epsilon as my sniper of choice.
    Hidden deployment allowing me to avoid his counter unit tell I am ready, the shift in his gameplay as he has to wonder when that ARO might happen, this should be an easy choice for me and my style. Sadly I really value having a MSV2 unit, and the Epsilon is such a crunchy gunfighter, and I have been getting so much work out of her my last two games.
     
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.
  16. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    428
    This very much depends on what you want to accomplish. Need to nail an Obnoxious TR bot or other solo defensive pieces or provide gotcha AROs then Lynx (Less orders to pull this kind of thing off compared to the Epsilon+Vguard smoke shoot and less obvious). Need a more general active turn trouble shooter piece, Epsilon. For standing out on ARO Neither, something cheaper like the Dakini with either MML2 or Enhanced Reaction on it would be better, mostly due to it being more durable and significantly cheaper so you care a lot less when it goes down.
     
    Andre82 and MikeTheScrivener like this.
  17. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    2,523
    Oh man, lynx all the way for snipers. As @Tourniquet points out – for a sniper rifle carrier the lynx is probably much better suited due to hidden deploy and a more obnoxious negative modifier. Catch someone without cover, shoot a non-leader link member, or blow away TR bots and the like. The lynx facilitates this kind of utility while the epsilon relies on his active turn to do damage. I love the epsilon but I don't think id ever give him the Multi sniper. The HMG is just too good. He absolutely wrecks face and even if he eats a lucky crit in return, with bio immunity, chances are you're just falling unconscious.
     
    Mahtamori, Andre82 and Tourniquet like this.
  18. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    535
    I'm surprised to see a lack of Cyberghost in these lists. Cyberghost+Sirius Red Fury has been eating MSV units alive for me in the games I've been playing. Plus having stealth on a lesser interventor seems pretty dope.

    Admitadly though I'm favoring double Sirius over two gangbusters but it's a matter of preference.
     
  19. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    2,523
    Cyberghost is for sure good. what it boils down to is if you're willing to pay 11 points for white noise. depending on local meta it can be worth it, other times not so much. With the rise of MSV in link teams I would seriously consider it when writing a list for an "all-comers". I also see a lot of use with the EVO hacker in O-12, free +3 on your delta jump and B2 on the Kyttas. These things generally find themselves in my list so it can be very helpful.
     
    Brother Smoke and AdmiralJCJF like this.
  20. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    1,343
    Taking cyberghost just for the white noise seems like a bit of a waste. I would make sure to include plenty of remotes in a list like that so he has plenty of other things to do. Maybe even take him on a LI zeta list.
     
    MikeTheScrivener likes this.