Wildcats and Bolts as well (ARM 2, BTS6). It's effectively +1 ARM for them. And yeah I'm still bitter Grrls get Bakunin's Haris not TMs. A 10 model Haris would have been hilarious. :'(
If I wanna build a list that has no personal constrains, like painted/owned models or playstyle/fluff, I would always use the most useful model for the job its going to do. This is also only valid for the current state of YJ, without any potential IA or new profiles. So if you compare a ZY FO to a Guilang FO, the Guilang always wins imho. Sure, it has only one wound, but it starts next to the objective, has the camo-state to protect it, can block the middle laying mines and even has repeaters! So you get to your goal in less orders for lesser points. As for the ShJ, there is also always a better profile for the job. In a recent game, I wanted to spent SWC (Treason, you know) and took a Heavy Rocket Launcher on a HI platform as an ARO piece. Both ShJ and WM have ARM4 and BS13, but the WM costs 6 points less. PH, BTS or CC were not relevant for the job, so I took the WM and two helper bots for the doctor and engineer. (Disclaimer, Annihilation in Treason has a max. range of 32", so a sniper wasn't that useful, but I must admit the extra SWC is sometimes a trap to make you build suboptimal lists, haha)
Ah, sorry about making that mistake when it came to Breaker ammunition and the cover Mod. Slipped my mind I suppose.
Shang Ji are used by veteran soldiers of YJ army. Getting cheaper Zuyong means to lose some BS, breaker pistols and Kinematics (perhaps a 20-23 points) An idea can be use a Shang Hi like a "sargeant" with Hacker device or HRL (or other kind of special equipment)
But do we really need cheaper Zuyong? They seem fine as is to me. Shang Ji getting more hacking devices does sound neat if anybody asks me.
If we want a Total AVA, a HI Core with options to include in the same list Hac Taos or Guijia with a good support: perhaps. Zuyong have great stats, but at the moment they are meant to be played in Generic lists like lone wolves, but if we must think about them like a linkable unit perhaps a little changes can be helpful. We must compare Zuyong with similar HI and their equipment. Magister Knights, Tankos have similar stats, but they have Panzerfaust and Flammespear (much better than a breaker pistol), even in medium range they can beat Zuyong, and close combat our Invencibles don't have any chance (well, perhaps with breaker pistols...). The only chance of the Zuyong is a combi rifle, because HMG and ML are more expensive than 27 pnts. Zuyong are meant to be a mass Infantry. I like actual Zuyong's stats, but if we want more fire power and support perhaps we should do some sacrifice (-1 BS?, normal pistols and no Kinematics is ok). Thinking in special Cores, 1 or 2 Shang Ji in a Zuyong core can give a reason to get some of them by their 13BS and weapons, and Hacker devices. We must remember about the possibility of a Shan Ji Haris, if they can get some AdvDep Shang Ji wins a lot. Edit: Zanshi special Core with 1-2 Shang Ji "sargeant", what do you think?
InvArm. Zuyong Core──────────────────────────────────────────────────10 ZÚYǑNG Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (2 | 36) ZÚYǑNG Lieutenant Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 27) ZÚYǑNG Boarding Shotgun / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 26) ZÚYǑNG Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 29) ZÚYǑNG Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 27) HAC TAO (Executive Order) HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 69) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) 5 SWC | 299 PointsOpen in Infinity Army If we can get 3 points for each Zuyong, it means 15 points extra. Perhaps for a Tiger o a Shang Ji Hacker in the Core.
Still not that stoked about having less BS and sacrificing the Breaker Pistols for regular Pistols ( Wouldn't mind sacrificing them for something like Heavy Pistol(s) or Assault Pistol(s). ) and am fully ok with losing out on Kinematika for them. As for Shang Ji mixing with Zuyong fireteams, sounds pretty great to me, especially if the Shang Ji can get a bit of a polishing by the time such a sectorial rolls out, with stuff like Hacker devices or various advanced deployment methods like you mentioned, for example. On the note of that Zhanshi + Shang Ji Special Core... perhaps 1-3 Zuyong + Zhanshi as a special core instead? The jump from Zhanshi to Shang Ji seems a bit sudden to me, but still, sounds like a neat idea.
Not sure about how likely we'd be to save 3 entire points from the Zuyong profiles across the board. Maybe 2 points or so, but still wouldn't expect an entire 3 points. Also, this is assuming the Invincinble Army will even be getting Zhanshi and their engineers/doctors ( From what I have heard, IA is going to be the HI focused sectorial, no? ).
InvArm. Special Zanshi Core──────────────────────────────────────────────────10 ZÚYǑNG HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 35) ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) GŪIJIĂ MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / AP CCW. (2 | 88) GŪIJIĂ PILOT Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. () HAC TAO Missile Launcher, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 65) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) TIGER SOLDIER Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
Medic/engineer Zuyong? Linkeable have I heard? Where I have to sign?! XD that could be great. In the Zanshi description says they are the "Core of the army", troops of that banner. I'm sure they will be in IA, and WB too. (I have too many hopes).
Yeah, that seems pretty neat. Would've gone for an HMG Hac Tao personally ( Pretty sure you could get the 5 points needed for that by ditching the Yao Zao and having the Tiger Soldier use a Boarding Shotgun instead. ), but that's just my own slight preference I suppose. Also, quick sidenote, what's your opinion on the Guija? ( If this feels too off topic, feel free to send said opinion through the PM system here. )
I would expect them to be in the White Banner since, y'know... it has Banner in its name. Same reason why I'd expect the focus in the INVINCIBLE Army to be on the INVINCIBLES Heavy Infantry units more so than the Zhanshi ( P.S.: Imagine a Haris where you could stick a Yan Hou in it. Burst 3 Missile Launchers on ARO sounds highly amusing, if nothing else. ).
Guijia is our Line Heavy TAG. In the lore we use large amounts of them, but you cannot include 3 in a list (at the moment, thinking in High Tier). It is very neat, not too expensive but useful, anyway it needs some support. In Uprising the Guijia fight next the Invencibles. So for sure if IA is a Heavy army they will be in there. Perhaps they will get another exclusive options in IA to make them unique.
Or perhaps even a new TAG altogether? I should probably look into getting one myself eventually. Especially since locally Limited Insertion is getting rather popular among players when it comes to local tournaments. The new YJ Support Pack should come in useful for that too I'd bet. Speaking of TAGs... would be rather neat if we could get some Engineer/Doctor HI profiles with IA. Would further emphasize that Heavy focus by giving options to forego smaller supportive dudes for bigger power armored supportive dudes. Wishful thinking though. Also, back on the original topic of this post, been looking at Wu Mings some more. The MULTI Rifle + Nimbus Nade Launcher seems like an interesting profile, but then again, I have a rather limited knowledge when it comes to the application and uses/effects of Nimbus zones.
Wu Ming simply Rules!! They are meant to fight in medium/short combat, HMG and HRL are the best deals. 4ARM, 13BS. Those criminals are very badass. If you play with them in generic lists HRL is a good option to cover flanks. But they can be hunted by long ranged weapons, so if you want some longer control the Zuyong ML is a better option. In ISS the Wu Ming Core is very hard and dangerous, and you can include a Hacker or an ML with the Zhanging agents. Nimbus is very rare to use. But one time a friend used them to shoot a Core with a Q-Drone with Marksman supportware. Mim -3, Cover -3, Nimbus -3 (the core had -9 and -1 burst), and the Q-Drone had -3 for Nimbus and HMG with burts 3. We can use it if we had a Core or a TO.
Yeah, I had a feeling Nimbus is probably more useful for screwing over fireteams since it effectively cancels out their third and fifth member bonuses. And yeah, Wu Ming seem like they have some solid combat stats overall. Lots of interesting weapon options too between the HRL, Chain Rifle + SMG, Panzerfaust, Mines and the rest. Zuyongs seem like better HMG carriers though, and I have a feeling they still manage to compete for a spot with the Wu Mings in vanilla in some aspect too..
As long as there are no other conditions or follow up portions to this challenge, including but not limited to building a decent list or contributing to the discussion in any meaningful way... I'll take my prize in Haqq miniatures: Yu Jing ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) ZÚYǑNG Lieutenant Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 27) ZÚYǑNG Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 27) ZÚYǑNG Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 27) ZÚYǑNG Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 27) ZÚYǑNG Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 27) YĀN HUǑ MULTI HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 53) SHÀNG JÍ Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 37) 2 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
