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Lareon's Battle Log: a personal voyage in ISS

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Lareon, Apr 4, 2022.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    BioV aren't a waste of points as they are designed at the moment because BioV cost the same as Courage and have a similarly low game impact. The issue is that BioV is typically used as a defining characteristic of a profile and as a defining characteristic it is not able to carry the weight. "But this unit has Hidden Deployment" works as a defining characteristic of a unit to set it apart as a comparison.

    So in essence, the issue here is that Bao are a low-performing trooper when compared to other units because Bao doesn't do anything potent enough within the context of Yu Jing or ISS to set them apart and their price is high for the sum total of their profile's expected combat performance. Which is to say that they aren't useless but that most people will rightly expect to get better value for their points spent on other units and certainly Bao doesn't perform well enough versus impersonators to be worth taking on that merit alone.

    If you put BioV on a profile you already like it wouldn't be unwelcome and arguably BioV as designed at the moment is designed that it would have a low-yield impact if it became as common as Courage. I wouldn't mind BioV too much on Celestial Guard, for instance, it'd add a point to their cost sure but it'd also add to the sectorial's flavour and make sure that I always have a reasonably decent unit for active Impersonation Discover on hand because I always bring at least one CG if able to.

    Given the scarcity of the equipment, however, maybe it should be an automatic success on Discover attempts and possibly even force the Model to be placed regardless of Impersonation level active.
     
  2. Lareon

    Lareon Well-Known Member

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    Hmm.. never had much success in using BioV. Honestly after few tries I decided to play around impersonators trying to limit their performance (mines, cheap aro troops, etc) rather than spending a lot of orders to discover them.
    I agree the Bao are quite underwhelming, and probably a BioV would be more useful on some stronger platform (or much more cheaper, acting as a sacrificable aro-discovery troop). But as for now I believe it's too order intensive for what it does in ISS
     
  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I never relied on the bv. Bao we're always about msv 2 and now +3 discover.
     
  4. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Yeah, Biovisor really needs a buff to be worth any orders spent on it, let alone points.

    This is different when the Biovisor is on a trooper who you want to protect though, especially an Lt. choice, CoC model, or likely decoy. The most potent benefit of a BioV is not active-turn discovery, but protection from Impersonation and Surprise Attack. [Edit: This function is also stronger because it doesn't suck active-turn orders, but rather makes the opponent's orders and risks less of a good investment.]

    Shukra Consultants are an excellent example of this good recipient for a Biometric Visor: Likely target of Impersonator attacks, good weapons for shooting it out against the same kind of target.
     
    #64 Savnock, Jun 28, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
    Brokenwolf likes this.
  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Eh, not really. Big chunk of the Impersonators including the two you're mostly likely to run into Fidays and Speculo are either going to dumpster him with a CC attack or a DTW. Biovisor isn't going to make much of a difference here.

    Yeah it'll help but the same way pissing on a fire helps. It's not effective and you end up regretting it anyway because now you're covered in piss scented steam and it'll take a good shower to get rid of that smell.
     
  6. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    lol colorful. I agree though. Even with sixth sense or BV, their CC+MA is so high they are likely to still crit with DA or Mono. Even the Zhanying with SS and -6 Para weapon can be easily be taken out. Against a Fiday for example, the Zhanying is going to hit on 18-3-15 and the Fiday 23-6+3=20+3. It's more iffy but I'd be willing to take the chance.
     
  7. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    With the Shukra it seems like the intention is that the disincentives plus whatever other units you have set up to defend the Lt or CoC guy will even the odds a bit, rather than completely erase an Impersonator's chances.

    It could make other targets more attractive than an obvious-Lt-swat, at least.

    Guess you're right though, still kind of a quarter-measure.

    I wish Infinity was better set up to lessen the suck factor of alpha strikes in general, Lt-swats being one of the most obnoxious forms. Wouldn't take much really: even just expanding strategic use of Command Tokens to drop a deployable, start with Supportware running, things like that could help. Make it two tokens allowed, and you've got a decent disincentive to alpha strikes (at a reasonable cost, Command Tokens are still a precious resource).

    Good thing ISS has all those Madtraps these days, they're really helpful. I feel for other armies with less perimeter weapons though.
     
    #67 Savnock, Jun 29, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2022
  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Reserve Kanren, Impersonator ain't going anywhere pinned in by holoechoes and mad traps.
     
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  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Unless they WIP-infiltrate next to the target or deploys in a location where there's not enough room for the echos to deploy close enough such as a 50x50x50mm box that's setup as a intended way to get on top of a container.
     
  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Obviously if you're expecting your opponent to roll for the deployment if you have an important enough target to chance it, precautions should be taken with blockers and watchers set up.
     
  11. Lareon

    Lareon Well-Known Member

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    Soooo

    a couple weeks ago I did my first tournament with ISS. And it went... well, better than expected.
    There were three missions for that tournament (standard 300-points, no additional rules): Powerpack, Decapitation, Frontline.

    I brought these lists:

    Powerpack
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    lista.grupo 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]4
    CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    HSIEN (Lieutenant) MULTI Marksman Rifle, Nanopulser ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (+1 | 53)
    ZHÀNYING (Hacker, Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 25)
    CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)

    lista.grupo 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1
    PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Tactical Awareness) Red Fury / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (1 | 31)
    MIRANDA ASHCROFT Combi Rifle, E/Mitter(+1B), Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    ZHÀNYING (Sensor, Triangulated Fire, Minelayer) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Madtraps / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 23)
    HÙSÒNG Yaókòng Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 24)
    HÙSÒNG Yaókòng Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 24)
    NINJA (Hacker, Hacking Device) Submachine Gun ( ) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0.5 | 35)

    6 filtros.CAP | 300 filtros.puntos

    SYS.abrirArmy



    Frontline
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    lista.grupo 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]4
    HSIEN (Lieutenant) MULTI Marksman Rifle, Nanopulser ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (+1 | 53)
    MIRANDA ASHCROFT MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    ZHÀNYING (Hacker, Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 25)
    CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    GARUDA Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 25)

    lista.grupo 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    SÙ-JIÀN Heavy Shotgun(+1B), Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 50)
    PANGGULING (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15)
    DAKINI MULTI Sniper Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 20)
    DAKINI Combi Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 13)
    ADIL (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 35)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

    4.5 filtros.CAP | 300 filtros.puntos

    SYS.abrirArmy

    ------------------------------------

    So, how did it went.

    I incredibly won the Powerpack mission, and I felt a lot dirty for that. I played against an heavy-oriented vanilla Haqqislam, and I used and abused the guided missile mechanic to bring down the tougher pieces, thanks to the infiltrating Ninja able to spotlight the units. After wiping a good slice of his points in the first turn (as well as the LT), the rest of the game went quite straightforward, clearing the table from the enemy troops and ending in a 8-1.

    Next mission was Decapitation, against a Kosmoflot friend of mine. He's usually on top of the last tournament classifics, so I went in zen-mode and trying to score as much points as possible, knowing I stand no chances against his bears. And it went as expected, with a horrifying bear climbing the walls of a building to destroy my sniper nest, while his LT was safely covered in a roof without any access from ground. Losing the Combat Jump roll for the Garuda was enough to prevent me scoring much of the points, so.. heh.
    At least the Su-Jian and the Hsien did wonder to kill the designated targets, and I was able to secure few points before being wiped out from the map (only a single Kuang Shi survived to the massacre, lol). 10-4 for him.

    Finally Frontline, against a Vanilla Combined. I was particularly tired at that point, and I admit I wasn't in the mood to applying a lot of effort in the game. I sacrified the Su-Jian in a worthless chase of the enemy Anathematic, only to be killed shortly thereafter. Fatigue and overextensions wrecked my list and my focus, and the enemy Anathematic picked all my units one by one, leaving me with only a Kuang Shi on the field (probably the same of the last match). 10-1 for him.

    At the end I'm satisfied of the results of the game. Last game aside, the lists performed really well (but I still feel dirty for that missile mechanic), and I scored a far better result than I initially expected. So... that's good for me :)
     
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  12. Lareon

    Lareon Well-Known Member

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    And this concludes (for now) my adventures in ISS. I will take a pause, focusing on other armies and leaving this sectorial to be used again in the next future.

    A couple of final considerations: the new fireteam compositions are a lot of fun. Being able to mix-match all these type of troops is huge, and it completely change the feel of the list in new ways I never thought. The cores are still limited and not really fun to deploy (at least celestial and dakini, I love the Wu Ming /Zhanying one), but the new Haris are really a surprise.
    But I still feel the sectorial itself is a bit clunky and based on very old concepts. They have a lot of severe limitations, and not many strengths that counter the weaknesses. Even if I had fun in playing them, I must admit I never been able to feel really comfortable playing ISS, with a lot of "I must avoid this situation / I hope not find myself in this situation" rather than having some counters in my hand. But at least the new mechanics help to balance the situation a bit :)
     
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